# What are France and Germany so pissed at U.S. about? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 28, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168 "2002-05-28T12:47:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/21 "2002-05-29T01:38:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \* > **I am, admittedly, the quintessential “ugly american”…** I find this comment intriguing. I am not trying to be insulting (you said it, after all!) but I wonder if you might not understand the issues that you raise better if you simply analysed yourself if you are, as you say, an ugly american. What exactly are the characteristics that make you an ugly american? Is it possible to extrapolate those characteristics out to cover at least some aspects of US foreign policy? Presumably you are suggesting (it would seem inherent in the term) that being an ugly american is a negative thing. If so, have you to some extent answered your own question as to why some France/Germany may have some antagonism towards you? This all seems to be a bit GD’ish really. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/22 "2002-05-29T01:38:54Z")
[Here](http://www.defense.gouv.fr/marine/actu/operations/bilan-heracles/index.htm) the same kind of page for the french navy ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/23 "2002-05-29T01:56:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I mean, it is unlikely that terrorists would bomb the country from whom they get their weapons. Just wondering…To which terrorists and to which weapons are you refering to? ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/24 "2002-05-29T03:22:17Z")
Gasp! I am so tired! If you are all right the consequence must be that both the EU and the US are idiots. What do I do know? Move to Antarctica??? Sparc ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/25 "2002-05-29T03:23:36Z")
That should not be know, but now! ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/26 "2002-05-29T04:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\* > > Huh? 2002 - 1945 = 57. > > Is there a joke here I’m not getting? \*\* If you wanted to be really nitpicky, the Allied powers marched on Berlin on July 1, '45 - slightly less than 57 years. And V-J day was the 2nd of Sept, so even more. But even I’m no that anal, so I’m waiting for an explaination, too. ---
**Author:** ![jb\_farley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9d8465/32.png) [@jb\_farley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jb_farley)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/27 "2002-05-29T06:06:39Z")
wow, two wooshes in one thread. big ones, too. ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/28 "2002-05-29T06:42:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > Gasp! I am so tired! If you are all right the consequence must be that both the EU and the US are idiots. What do I do know? Move to Antarctica??? > > Sparc I don’t think anyone is accusing anyone else of being “idiots”. If everyone is right, then France (in particular) and Germany have different opinions than the US on how the world should be run. Also, its not an EU thing, but rather specific to one or two countries in Europe. I don’t think many people would accuse the UK of being anti-American. In fact, UK foreign policy is pretty well aligned with that of the US: the UK has been busy in Afghanistan, and is of course still patrolling Iraq. PS - **jacksen9** ’s joke is fairly clear! (And funny, too) ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/29 "2002-05-29T12:52:00Z")
\*\*Huh? 2002 - 1945 = 57. \*\* \*\*Is there a joke here I’m not getting? \*\* Just thought the question was one that KidCharlemagne already knew the answer to probably. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/30 "2002-05-29T15:05:18Z")
I suppose there are two types of ugly americans and many are ugly in both ways. Im “ugly” in the second. 1. What Europeans consider to be the stereotypical American - Fat, loud, wearing Bermuda shorts and a Panama hat. 2. The American who is generally ignorant of foreigner’s viewpoints on various issues and is ethnocentric in general. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/31 "2002-05-29T15:11:11Z")
**Kid** - I think a lot of people tend to start out ignorant and ethnocentric - particularly if they haven’t had access to much international media or travelled/lived abroad/met foreigners much. That’s not ugly. It’s **staying ignorant** in the face of enlightenment that’s ugly. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/32 "2002-05-29T15:56:07Z")
This seems to be turning into a different sort of thread, but: Don’t the Americans hate the French? Certainly in the field of American popular culture, the French are abused, stereotyped, and ridiculed. I’m not aware of how the Americans view the Germans, if they consider the issue at all. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/33 "2002-05-29T17:01:44Z")
Coming back to this thread today, I found a list of official statements about the french participation in Afghanistan, from the french embassy in the US (dating from March, 22), which give a detail of the operations : [Here the link](http://www.info-france-usa.org/news/statmnts/2002/sfia/fight.asp) ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/34 "2002-05-29T17:07:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by refusal \* > \*\*This seems to be turning into a different sort of thread, but: > > Don’t the Americans hate the French? Certainly in the field of American popular culture, the French are abused, stereotyped, and ridiculed. I’m not aware of how the Americans view the Germans, if they consider the issue at all. \*\* French people are deservedly despised because they all bicycle around carrying french sticks in their bike baskets wearing stupid berets and striped tops with wreaths of garlic strung around their necks. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/35 "2002-05-29T20:14:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by refusal \* > \*\*This seems to be turning into a different sort of thread, but: > > Don’t the Americans hate the French? Certainly in the field of American popular culture, the French are abused, stereotyped, and ridiculed. I’m not aware of how the Americans view the Germans, if they consider the issue at all. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/36 "2002-05-29T20:19:35Z")
Argh. Damn board ate my post. Anyway, what I said was something to this effect: Sure, we make fun of the French, but it’s mostly not serious–the French are really the only nationality or group of people we can mock without being publicly crucified. Scratch at the surface and you’ll find it doesn’t go very deep at all. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/37 "2002-05-29T22:48:32Z")
For one thing, public demonstrating is something of a tradition in parts of the world, especially France. I am under the impression that in Paris in any given day, there is some sort of rally going on. So if Bush drops by - expect an anti-Bush rally. I think Americans should find this a bit flattering…do you think Viktor Orban or John Howard’s motorcade would earn anything more than a few angry hornhonks from a cut-off Parisian cab driver? And I would wager LBJ and Nixon were faced with far worse on their trips abroad. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/38 "2002-05-29T22:49:29Z")
That surprises me, considering that I complained about it once in a pit thread (that seems to have been lost in the Winter of our Missed Content), and I was pretty much crucified as a censorious prig for daring to get annoyed at ethnic stereotypes and slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168/39 "2002-05-30T01:19:44Z")
Would it be brown-nosing to say I really, really enjoyed my trip to France (good gosh, almost 20 years ago now!) and found that while the French do not always like the American government, they do seem to have some affection for Americans. At least, outside of Paris they do. And it probably helped I learned how to say a few useful phrases and proper table manners prior to the journey. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clairobscur \* > These certainly haven’t been widely publicized by the government, here. It wouldn’t pay, since the population isn’t very supportive of the US policy. Actually, some of us over here aren’t entirely happy with our government policies/actions, either. > [@](#): > > -The US weren’t really willing to inform the french government about the details of the offensive, which they would have to do if french military had been more largely involved There was also some concern about France’s historical tendency to lean more towards the Arabs than the Isrealis and possible Al Queda cells in France. I don’t seriously believe the French government would hand us over to the Nut Cases ™ but our current administration is paranoid. > [@](#): > > The France-US cooperation since the 11/9 was essentially in the intelligence and financial area. And still appreciated - since this isn’t going to be solved by guns alone. > [@](#): > > The french government also complained, at the beginning of the operations, about the lack of informations passed to it by the US government, though. The _United States Congress_ has complained about the lack of information from the Bush camp! It’s not you, it’s the President > [@](#): > > -France is very opposed to the US project to attack Irak, and more generally, to the “axis of evil” concept. I don’t think we have any business attacking Iraq right now, either. Not that we wouldn’t love an excuse, but many folks in the US don’t think it’s justified either. > [@](#): > > -France and the US have extremely divergent views about the Palestine issue Well, please don’t think the US is united on that issue. We aren’t. > [@](#): > > -France is plenty pissed off by the recent US stand on steel tariffs and farmers subventions. Much criticism on this side of the Atlantic about that, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-france-and-germany-so-pissed-at-u-s-about/111168.md?page=1)