# What are Obama's biggest flaws? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 8, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842 "2008-11-08T21:05:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/141 "2008-11-17T13:58:14Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Actually, that FISA bill strengthened protections of American citizens’ privacy. Wait, how is saying “you spied on us illegally because the President asked you to, but never mind, that’s fine” protecting my privacy? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/142 "2008-11-17T19:46:58Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Actually, that FISA bill strengthened protections of American citizens’ privacy. The PUMA folks did an excellent job of painting it as a political concession to the enemies of the Bill of Rights, but it’s actually almost the opposite. Just ask Sen. Feinstein (D-CA), who had **no** political leverage to gain from voting yes on it, but did it anyway, because it was the right thing to do. If anyone is interested, I can dig up her explanation to me of why she voted yes on it (it’s in my inbox somewhere). My understanding was that it was the best Obama felt he could do at the time politically. It was better than nothing, and Obama is a guy who will settle for a nickel if he can’t get the quarter he was asking for. I’ve used this analogy in discussions with my family - whether it’s better to be a person who gets a quarter once and four nothings, or a person who gets five nickels, but now that I think of it, I don’t think it’s quite a valid analogy. I think guys like Obama get a nickel three times, nothing once and a quarter once. I’m something of a purist myself, a child of the sixties, and it frosts my ass to say it, but Obama’s right, and Bill Clinton was right. Until such time as the true majority of the country feels as I do, they’ll always aim for the stars, but then settle for the moon, and occasionally they’ll make it all the way to the sun, which in itself is a huge achievement. And it’s no flaw of Obama’s that he’s willing to settle; it’s my flaw for demanding an ideological purity from him rather than the hard-headed pragmatism that not only do I know he has, but was one of the reasons I thought he’d make such a good president. Which doesn’t mean that we lefties shouldn’t keep the pressure up, because the Limbaugh right won’t stop bitching from now until the next Republican is elected, and even then they’ll insist that the liberal elites are “really” in control, just as Lee Atwater and Karl Rove taught them to. The balance must be maintained, or Obama will be pushed over, and that would be disastrous. This would be true for any president, but will be particularly true for one where the situation is as dire and the expectations are as high as is true in the US now. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/143 "2008-11-17T22:04:05Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Obama is not the horror that Rover and Shodan bleated about, He actually is republican lite. He seems to be behind the bailout which is just a huge going away present for the financial looters. He shows little interest in getting us out of Iraq and even wants a bigger army for Afghanistan. > A moderate change in income tax has them foaming at the mouth. Apparently they think Bush did a bang up job with the economy and we should continue his successful methodology. > He talks aggressively toward Iran. That bodes an ugly future. He has not discussed the financing of the pile of wars we enjoy so much. The Shrub just put it on a credit card. Not a good start: > [@](#): > > [Ex-CIA Officials Tied to Rendition Program and Faulty Iraq Intel Tapped to Head Obama’s Intelligence Transition Team | Democracy Now!](http://www.democracynow.org/2008/11/17/obama_taps_ex_cia_officials_tied) > > Ex-CIA Officials Tied to Rendition Program and Faulty Iraq Intel Tapped to Head Obama’s Intelligence Transition Team > John Brennan and Jami Miscik, both former intelligence officials under George Tenet, are leading Barack Obama’s review of intelligence agencies and helping make recommendations to the new administration. Brennan has supported warrantless wiretapping and extraordinary rendition, and Miscik was involved with the politicized intelligence alleging weapons of mass destruction in the lead-up to the war on Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/144 "2008-11-18T15:28:41Z")
Meet the new boss: > [@](#): > > [http://www.truthout.org/111808J](http://www.truthout.org/111808J) > > Barack Obama’s incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists during the George W. Bush presidency. Obama, who has criticized the use of torture, is being urged by some constitutional scholars and human rights groups to investigate possible war crimes by the Bush administration. > > ``` > Two Obama advisers said there's little - if any - chance that the incoming president's Justice Department will go after anyone involved in authorizing or carrying out interrogations that provoked worldwide outrage. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/145 "2008-11-19T01:39:52Z")
So, because he probably won’t polarize the country by hauling our last President in on criminal charges, he’s the “same as the old boss”, who actually did all the torturing? Look, I’d like to see Bush and his cronies strung up on piano wire just as much as the next guy. But his entire campaign–hell, his entire _life_–has been about uniting, not dividing, our nation. Despite the fact that it’s fashionable for Republicans to denounce Bush right now, many of our country’s redder half will defend each of his policies if you push them hard enough. I’ve met a lot of people who _say_ they hate Bush because that’s what they’re supposed to say, but who don’t have any real qualms with the guy on a political level and would be outraged by anybody actually doing anything about Shrub’s many crimes. That spells political disaster, and although putting the dude and his cronies on trial is the right thing to do, it could set the stage for someone who’s _really_ the same as the old boss to take back the White House and the Senate in 2012. We’ve got to look long-term at this. On the other hand, I’d be tickled pink if Shrubby found himself hauled in on his next sojourn to Baghdad or the Hague. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/146 "2008-11-19T04:19:03Z")
He pronounces “divisive” to rhyme with “permissive,” instead of “decisive.” Afraid that’s all I’ve got. Lemme read the whole thread, instead of doing a search on the word “divisive”, and I’ll see if I can think of any others. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/147 "2008-11-19T06:46:57Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Meet the new boss: > > > [@](#): > > > > [http://www.truthout.org/111808J](http://www.truthout.org/111808J) > > > > Barack Obama’s incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists during the George W. Bush presidency. Obama, who has criticized the use of torture, is being urged by some constitutional scholars and human rights groups to investigate possible war crimes by the Bush administration. > > > > Two Obama advisers said there’s little - if any - chance that the incoming president’s Justice Department will go after anyone involved in authorizing or carrying out interrogations that provoked worldwide outrage. That sounds about right. > [@](#): > > [The Trouble with Eric Holder](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/state_of_change/384564) > > Quick! Name the veteran Department of Justice insider who, shortly after the USA Patriot Act was signed into law as the Bush administration was proposing to further erode barriers to governmental abuses, that dissenters should not be tolerated? > Who invoked September 11, explicitly referencing “the World Trade Center aflame,” in calling for the firing of any “petty bureaucrat” who might suggest that proper procedures be followed and that the separation of powers be respected? > > John Ashcroft? No. > > Alberto Gonzales? No. > > It was Eric Holder, the man who has reportedly been selected by President-elect Barack Obama to serve as the next Attorney General of the United States. > > … > > If that’s unsettling, consider the fact that Holder was part of the legal team that in 2005 developed strategies for securing re-authorization of the Patriot Act. > > … > > Much will be made of Holder’s role as a deputy attorney general in helping former President Clinton arrange for the last-minute pardon of fugitive/Democratic campaign contributor Marc Rich. (Holder said he gave Clinton a “neutral, leaning towards favorable” opinion of the proposed pardon.) And it will also be noted that Holder, as a corporate lawyer in private practice after leaving the Clinton team, played a key role in negotiating an agreement with the Justice Department that got Chiquita Brands International executives off the hook for paying protection money to right-wing death squads in Colombia. > > … Holder is black and a friend of Obama’s, so, what…he’s not having to go through the same vetting process as everyone else? Or, he has been vetted and these things don’t matter? If Bush had picked this guy, Democrats would be howling at the moon in anger. Maybe it’s not true. Maybe Hillary as SOS isn’t true. But they both might be, and I have to say, my liberal schoolgirl crush on and hope for our new president is quickly starting to fade. But at least, he’s gotta be better than McCain, and certainly better than Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/148 "2008-11-19T06:54:49Z")
Well, shit. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/149 "2008-11-19T08:25:40Z")
Another Holder [tidbit](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/drugs/mjtrafic.htm): > [@](#): > > In addition, U.S. Attorney Eric H. Holder Jr. said in an interview that he is considering not only prosecuting more marijuana cases but also asking the D.C. Council to enact stiffer penalties for the sale and use of marijuana. > > “We have too long taken the view that what we would term to be minor crimes are not important,” Holder said, referring to current attitudes toward marijuana use and other offenses such as panhandling. > > … That’s from 1996. I don’t yet have a link, but someone said that he’s also against medical marijuana. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/150 "2008-11-19T14:59:34Z")
He’s a Blackberry addict. That’s a big personal flaw in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/151 "2008-11-19T18:17:15Z")
Just out of curiosity, where’s the personal flaw in that? I’m just not familiar with that connection, so I’d appreciate if you would humor me by spelling it out. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/152 "2008-11-20T01:16:51Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Just out of curiosity, where’s the personal flaw in that? I’m just not familiar with that connection, so I’d appreciate if you would humor me by spelling it out. With your thumbs. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842/153 "2008-11-20T02:08:00Z")
He’s going to have to go cold turkey on the BlackBerry, though. I think his greatest flaw is that he can be too optimistic, particularly about the character and intelligence of others. I’m intrigued by his approach to bipartisanship and compromise, but I sometimes worry that he counts too much on those on the other side rising to the occasion. Will he be wary enough when he brings rivals into his administration, or sits down to talk with enemies, that he doesn’t get manipulated, blindsided or stabbed in the back? I’ve decided to take a leaf from his book and expect the best of him, but I’ll be curious to see how it all works out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-obamas-biggest-flaws/471842.md?page=7)