# What Are Some Artifacts, Artworks, Treasures, etc. That Are Probably Somewhere, But No One Knows Where? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 8, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825 "2023-11-08T14:56:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/161 "2023-12-08T22:48:51Z")
Is this a matter of law or NASA policy? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/162 "2023-12-08T23:13:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Says who? I mean, in terms of legal authority, not just a NASA statement claiming this. > [@bryanmaguire](#): > > Is this a matter of law or NASA policy? Looking at it from the other side, the US government spent billions of dollars to go to the moon and bring those rocks back. To whom else could they belong? Who else could claim any right of ownership, except in the one case we know of where NASA accidentally sold some dust? The official gifts to the states and other countries were the property of those jurisdictions, who didn’t have the right to dispose of them. The researchers who got samples not only didn’t have any right to dispose of them, they also agreed to rigorous audit requirements regarding the location and status of the materials. In looking for some documentation of that process, I found this document: “[NASA’S MANAGEMENT OF MOON ROCKS AND OTHER ASTROMATERIALS LOANED FOR RESEARCH, EDUCATION, AND PUBLIC DISPLAY.](https://oig.nasa.gov/docs/IG-12-007.pdf)” [pdf] I’m just about to sit down to dinner, so I don’t have time to read all 35 pages, but I wouldn’t be surprised if somewhere in there it states the legal justification for NASA’s ownership. I’ll read it when I can and check back a little later to see what you guys find out. Then we can fight about it some more! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![bryanmaguire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d07c76/32.png) [@bryanmaguire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmaguire)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2023, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/163 "2023-12-08T23:39:57Z")
No fighting from my side. I responded to a post that made a pretty definitive statement and was looking for a source of that information. I’m going to bed now so let me know what you find ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/164 "2023-12-09T00:08:33Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > The official gifts to the states and other countries were the property of those jurisdictions, who didn’t have the right to dispose of them Why don’t foreign countries have the right to sell their rocks? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/165 "2023-12-09T05:22:19Z")
US law shouldn’t be able to prevent foreigners from getting their rocks off. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/166 "2023-12-09T08:25:28Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > To whom else could they belong? In case of an astronaut picking up a piece of rock for his family, I could perfectly see an argument that in doing so, this astronaut acquired good title to the rock. The counter-argument would have to be that in picking up the rock, the astronaut acted as an agent of NASA. But does this argument hold if picking up the rock was not part of the atsronaut’s mission? It takes only a second, after all. Then he would have done so on the occasion of carrying out his duties on the Moon but not as part of these duties. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/167 "2023-12-09T08:36:01Z")
FWIW, in the aftermath of the Apollo 15 stamped envelope scandal, NASA retained those envelopes still in the astronauts’ possession, but a few years later (according to the Wikipedia article) a Justice Department analysis concluded that NASA probably had no legal basis to do this and violated the astronauts’ constitutional rights. I know the case is not directly analogous to ours (because the envelopes had been carried from the Earth to the Moon and back, not picked up on the Moon). But it’s the closest real-life incident that has been extensively discussed. And it does illustrate that NASA making a legal assertion, and that assertion actually being correct, are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/168 "2023-12-09T22:15:36Z")
[Moderating] While the question of ownership of moon rocks is a fascinating one, it’s not precisely on topic for this thread, which is about items of unknown location. Perhaps a new thread could be started for it? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/169 "2023-12-09T22:46:30Z")
So, back to the original premise of the thread, may I suggest the missing final panels of the Bayeux Tapestry? > **[Bayeux Tapestry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry)** > > The Bayeux Tapestry (UK: /baɪˈjɜː, beɪ-/, US: /ˈbeɪjuː, ˈbaɪ-/; French: Tapisserie de Bayeux \[tapisʁi də bajø\] or La telle du conquest; Latin: Tapete Baiocense) is an embroidered cloth nearly 70 metres (230 feet) long and 50 centimetres (20 inches) tall that depicts the events leading up to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066, led by William, Duke of Normandy challenging Harold II, King of England, and culminating in the Battle of Hastings. It is thought to date to the 11th century, within > At least two panels of the tapestry are missing, perhaps even another 6.4 m (7.0 yd) in total. This missing area may have depicted William’s coronation as King of England.[[26]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry#cite_note-hicks-27) A poem by [Baldric of Dol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldric_of_Dol) describes a tapestry on the walls of the personal apartments of [Adela of Normandy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adela_of_Normandy), which is very similar to the Bayeux depiction. He describes the closing scene as the coronation of William in London.[[37]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayeux_Tapestry#cite_note-45) Granted it’s more of a “possibly” rather than “probably” still out there - but it’s a part of a factual item that existed at one point with no clear record of it being destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/170 "2023-12-09T22:46:40Z")
Abandoning Moon rocks and returning to missing artifacts … almost. > [@EnolaStraight](#): > > I’m 99% sure the cruiser sand to the bottom of the sea when the iceberg melted, but there is the possibility the Soviets recovered the vehicle, and used it as a basis for _their_ antarctic vehicles… > …The Kharkovchankas. > [Oversnow heavy tractor Kharkovchanka - Kharkovchanka - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkovchanka#/media/File:Oversnow_heavy_tractor_Kharkovchanka.jpg) I wonder why you suggest that? Other than both being designed to traverse open snow and ice, there is nothing in common between the design features of Admiral Byrd’s Snow Cruiser and the Soviet Kharkovchanka. Which greatly resembles a bog-standard armored personnel carrier and the Snow Cruiser not at all. Compare and contrast with the US’s roughly contemporary **[M113 armored personnel carrier - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M113_armored_personnel_carrier)**. Yes, the Kharkovchanka is both wider and taller. Because it was not constrained to fit into a C-130. But otherwise pretty similar. My bottom line: IMO the Kharkovchankas were overgrown APCs, not copied Snow Cruisers. Unlike say the Soviet **[Tupolev Tu-4 - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-4)** which was transparently a copy of the US **[Boeing B-29 Superfortress - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-29_Superfortress)**. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/171 "2023-12-09T22:53:05Z")
I intend to do so, based on the reading I have been doing on the subject. It may take a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/172 "2023-12-09T23:32:28Z")
The missing parts of [the flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star-Spangled_Banner_(flag)) that flew at Fort McHenry. _Several feet of fabric have been lost from the flag’s fly end, from cuttings that were given away as souvenirs and gifts, as well as from deterioration from continued use.[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star-Spangled_Banner_(flag)#cite_note-NMAH-keepsake-6) It now measures 30 by 34 feet (9.1 by 10.4 m). The flag currently has only fourteen stars—the fifteenth star was similarly given as a gift, but its recipient and current whereabouts are unknown._ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/173 "2023-12-10T00:09:14Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Granted it’s more of a “possibly” rather than “probably” still out there - but it’s a part of a factual item that existed at one point with no clear record of it being destroyed. Those would be very cool I concur, but since no record of them being in existence for over 1000 years, I have little hope. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/174 "2023-12-10T00:29:06Z")
In all the years I was dragged to Fort McHenry, this is the most fascinating thing I’ve learned. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/175 "2023-12-10T02:11:58Z")
Maybe not the looks or the size, but the mission. Cat tracks are FAR superior than slick tires, by far. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/176 "2023-12-10T02:34:23Z")
The missing sixth painting from Pieter Breughel the Elder’s “seasons” series. ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2023, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/177 "2023-12-10T07:48:10Z")
I came across this similar reddit thread today: [What treasures that we 100% know existed still haven’t been found?](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/18egdot/what_treasures_that_we_100_know_existed_still/) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2023, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/178 "2023-12-11T01:48:46Z")
From the reddit thread: > **[List of missing treasures](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missing_treasures)** > > This is an incomplete list of notable treasures that are currently lost or missing. The existence of some of these treasures is mythical or disputed. > Seven eggs in the Imperial series are missing: ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825/179 "2024-02-15T22:36:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Paul McCartney’s original Hofner bass, stolen in 1972. We can remove this item from the list. > **[Paul McCartney reunited with bass guitar stolen in 1972](https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-mccartney-reunited-bass-guitar-203153297.html)** > > Instrument discovered in attic in East Sussex only a few miles from former Beatle’s home after campaign to find it featured in Telegraph [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-artifacts-artworks-treasures-etc-that-are-probably-somewhere-but-no-one-knows-where/992825.md?page=8)