# What are some common misuses of the terms 'paradox' and 'irony'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 7, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047 "2018-01-07T15:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidmich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@davidmich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidmich)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/1 "2018-01-07T15:34:03Z")
Hi What are some common misuses of the terms ‘paradox’ and ‘irony’? Real examples from blog or articles would be helpful. I’m asking because I myself probably misuse the terms. Are there any concrete rules of thumb for proper usage you can recommend? I look forward to your feedback. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/2 "2018-01-07T16:06:24Z")
Most of Alanis Morissette’s song. > [@](#): > > An old man turned ninety-eight > He won the lottery and died the next day That’s ironic. It would also be ironic for someone who was _already a billionaire_ to win the lottery. > [@](#): > > It’s a black fly in your Chardonnay > It’s a death row pardon two minutes too late > It’s like rain on your wedding day > It’s a free ride when you’ve already paid > It’s the good advice that you just didn’t take The black fly contrasts with the white wine. So what? Not ironic. It would be ironic if the holder of the Chardonnay had _just_ told the old joke where the man complains to the waiter about a fly in his soup, and the waiter says “Be quiet, or everybody will want one!” Prisoner dies because his pardon is just too late? Not ironic, just sad. It would be ironic if a man carrying the governors orders about the pardon to the prison governor was delayed three minutes by a chaotic protest outside the prison opposing capital punishment. Rain on your wedding day? Not ironic, just disappointing. It might be ironic if the bride and groom were both meteorologists. A free ride when you’ve already paid? I suppose getting a freebie for something that you’ve pre-paid is mildly ironic, but it’s a pretty weak example. Not taking somebody’s good advice? Not ironic, just dumb. > [@](#): > > Mr. Play It Safe was afraid to fly > He packed his suitcase and kissed his kids good-bye > He waited his whole damn life to take that flight > And as the plane crashed down he thought > “Well, isn’t this nice.” Possibly her best example of irony. > [@](#): > > A traffic jam when you’re already late > A no-smoking sign on your cigarette break Not ironic X 2. > [@](#): > > It’s like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife Ironic, and nice imagery. Bombarded with preposterous amounts of similar item B when you actually need A. > [@](#): > > It’s meeting the man of my dreams > And then meeting his beautiful wife Not ironic. ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/3 "2018-01-07T16:07:28Z")
> [@davidmich](#): > > I myself probably misuse the terms. What makes you think so? ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/4 "2018-01-07T16:09:54Z")
Possibly the best (or worst, depending upon your viewpoint) example of a misuse of irony is of course Alanis Morrisette’s song [Ironic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jne9t8sHpUc). The _only_ thing ironic about the entire song, is that almost nothing in it is ironic. Damn, ningad. Great minds. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/5 "2018-01-07T16:11:55Z")
The meaning of irony that Alanis is trying (and failing) to describe involves being “mocked by fate”, in a manner that somehow turns things on their head. The other meaning for irony is that it’s a synonym for sarcasm, where the intended meaning is the opposite of the literal meaning. That sense is easier. (Also dramatic irony, of course, but that’s a straightforward definition.) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/6 "2018-01-07T16:27:43Z")
I’m not sure that “paradox” is misused or misunderstood to the same extent as irony, is it? It has a strict technical definition as a _logical_ paradox, but also a looser colloquial meaning where things are just contrary to the expected order. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/7 "2018-01-07T16:27:54Z")
This is a reasonable summing up of the differences: > [@](#): > > Definitions of Irony and Paradox > > Irony ‘“ refers to real or literary situations or conversations where the evident meaning of a statement or action is incongruous with its intended meaning. > Paradox ‘“ refers to a statement that defies intuition as it leads to seemingly irreconcilable contradictions. > > [Difference Between Irony and Paradox | Difference Between](http://www.differencebetween.net/language/difference-between-irony-and-paradox/#ixzz53W6NODre) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/8 "2018-01-07T16:45:28Z")
If you’re referring to an obstetrician and a pediatrician as a paradox, you’re getting it wrong. If you also lack carbon in your steel sculpture, it’s irony. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/9 "2018-01-07T19:03:41Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If you’re referring to an obstetrician and a pediatrician as a paradox, you’re getting it wrong. If you also lack carbon in your steel sculpture, it’s irony. You win the pun of the month award. Too bad you didn’t have it yesterday. How ironic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/10 "2018-01-07T19:14:05Z")
“If you want peace, prepare for war” is often said to be a paradox. I’ve never seen anything remotely paradoxical about it. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/11 "2018-01-07T19:58:49Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “If you want peace, prepare for war” is often said to be a paradox. > > I’ve never seen anything remotely paradoxical about it. How about Yogi Berra’s famed assertion “Nobody goes to that restaurant, it’s always too crowded”? Sometimes a paradox (like an oxymoron) expresses a well-understood truth, even if it seems contradictory. Like Jesus saying, “He who loses his life will save it.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/12 "2018-01-07T20:06:39Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > How about Yogi Berra’s famed assertion “Nobody goes to that restaurant, it’s always too crowded”? > > Sometimes a paradox (like an oxymoron) expresses a well-understood truth, even if it seems contradictory. Like Jesus saying, “He who loses his life will save it.” Ooh! The Epimenides paradox! “Epimenides the Cretan says all Cretans are liars.” Which looks like a real paradox — you know, like “This Sentence Is A Lie,” where if it’s true it’d be false; but if it’s false, it’d be true — only it’s _not_ actually a problem. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/13 "2018-01-07T21:15:22Z")
Even within formal terms, what qualifies as a “paradox” is sometimes disputed. Take the so-called [Unexpected Hanging/Test Paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox). For many, including myself, it is not a paradox at all.\* It languished as uninteresting until someone (can’t find the cite) wrote an article claiming it _was_ a paradox, restarting the debate. To me, it’s a misuse of the term. There’s nothing paradoxical about it. It’s just something that’s surprising at first glance. - It’s not a paradox, it’s merely a statement of fact. Given two perfectly logical people (effectively automatons) with the same skills and information, one cannot make a choice that the other cannot predict. Throw in some irrational behavior (being human) and it’s a very different situation. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/14 "2018-01-07T21:31:39Z")
I had once been in a mild disagreement with a Syracuse U prof who knows much more about mathematics and formal logic than I do. He reserved “paradox” in math/logic to unanswered condundrums. I had been inclined to use a secondary meaning for apparent mind benders which have been resolved, and in some cases are relatively trivial in resolution. I vaguely recall that he soon understood my approach to more than one meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/15 "2018-01-08T07:40:07Z")
[Earlier thread on similar subject.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638100) > [@](#): > > \_\_ > \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ ‘\_\_\_\_\_\_\_’ \_\_\_ ‘\_\_\_\_\_’? \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_ \_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ \_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_. > > _’_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_. \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ \_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_? > > \_ \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \_\_ \_\_\_\_ \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. Your OP has been ironed by the ironist. (Disclaimer: No, I didn’t just make that joke up. I used it in the above-linked thread, and I got the idea because I had seen it in some even earlier thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/16 "2018-01-08T07:48:54Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Most of Alanis Morissette’s song. The lottery thing is definitely not ironic and still wouldn’t be if it was a billionaire, neither is the “afraid to fly” guy. The only actual irony is the spoons thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/17 "2018-01-08T08:03:32Z")
Although if the billionaire had walked out on a meeting that could’ve earned him $2 million just to buy a ticket that then comes in for $1 million, that would be irony. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/18 "2018-01-08T09:26:01Z")
I’ve always thought that Gilbert & Sullivan’s [paradox song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXhJKzI1u48)does not actually describe a paradox. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/19 "2018-01-08T10:19:00Z")
Fermi’s Paradox It’s really just saying “Based on what we know, we’d expect to see X. But we don’t see X. Why?”, which is not really a paradox. The label though, leads to many discussions (e.g. on this site) predicated on the assumption that all one needs to do is think of a plausible, self-consistent reason why we haven’t detected alien life, and one has “solved” the paradox. When in fact of course there are many, somewhat plausible, proposed reasons we haven’t seen ETI. We just don’t know which, if any, of these hypotheses is the true reason. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047/20 "2018-01-08T12:43:40Z")
A paradox has to be self-contradictory (at least as expressed) but true (at least in some sense). “The only thing you can be certain of is that certainty is an impossibility”. Gödel’s incompleness theorem is a formal treatise pointing out a paradox: that any sufficiently complicated mathematical system that is set up to make a formal recipe for determining what mathematical expressions are true will inevitably set the stage for true expressions consistent with that sytem whose truth cannot be assessed by that system. (Therefore an absolute system of this nature is inherently impossible). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-common-misuses-of-the-terms-paradox-and-irony/806047.md?page=2)