# What are some forms of information that undermine the simple 'oppressor vs oppressed' western narrative **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [August 8, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868 "2025-08-08T16:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/121 "2025-08-09T15:03:30Z")
Go on then, as we seem to be doing contrarian takes on this thread how about this? The Falklands War was _ **the UK** _ defending the indigenous inhabitants of the Falklands from colonial aggression. The British inhabitants of the Falklands are the first human beings to ever inhabit the the Falkland islands, they are the indigenous inhabitants. Whereas Argentinians are overwhelmingly the descendants of colonial European settlers who displaced the indigenous population. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/122 "2025-08-09T18:38:31Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > The British inhabitants of the Falklands are the first human beings to ever inhabit the the Falkland islands, Wrong. The French got there first. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/123 "2025-08-09T23:01:42Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I’m queer. You don’t speak for us. We don’t need or want your kind of “help.” If you’d foreground our voices instead of your own, you might begin to understand. I’ll never “foreground” anyone’s voice but my own (what a contemptible piece of language, that). Nor will I ever pretend to speak for anyone else, so you can just stop assuming that’s what I’m doing. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/124 "2025-08-09T23:08:54Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > and Queers for Palestine are not, genuinely or otherwise, confused. I did a bit of searching for examples I’d previously seen where they seemed confused/regretful/et., and I couldn’t find them. So it is, at best, rare. I withdraw the statement. I still think, personally, that they are deeply confused, but not about the specific understanding that the people they support mostly want them dead. It’s still not clear to me what queers have in common with Palestinians aside from being oppressed. Others in this thread seem to think that oppression is always based on more fundamental ideas. So what are they in this case? On what point, other than oppression itself, are queers aligned with Palestinians? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2025, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/125 "2025-08-09T23:26:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The only requirement for oppression is that you find someone less powerful than you and choose to engage in one-sided violence against them Well, that would exclude Palestinians as being oppressed since the violence has hardly been one-sided. It would also exclude a lot of other groups. Does only physical violence count? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s incorrect. Then name a few groups where the opposite is true. A group that’s weak and powerless, suffers because of it, but the broad progressive response is “Yeah, but they’re awful. They deserved it”. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nearly everyone on the left–including every progressive–that I know thinks similarly. Do you think that, on balance, views by progressives of Israel and Palestine are approximately equally negative? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/126 "2025-08-10T00:00:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s still not clear to me what queers have in common with Palestinians …I don’t understand this at _all_. What part of “I don’t want to see innocent people slaughtered” do you not understand? I don’t see how anyone could need more clarity on this. Or the fact that queer people in Palestine _exist_. And that those queer people are being bombed and shot at and starved. Here’s video of an openly queer person not getting killed by Palestinians. > **[Rain Dove goes to Gaza openly queer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGvpBzJRlyE%2F)** > > Non-binary androgynous model Rain Dove arrives in Gaza to deliver cash envelopes to locals https://instagram.com/reel/C0SGjpzIxLcFor more https://instagram.c... Because the reality is “the people they support mostly want them dead” simply isn’t a correct statement. I’m sure _some_ people do. Just like how in America there are also people who _also_ wish they were dead, as there are people like that all over the world. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > So what are they in this case? On what point, other than oppression itself, are queers aligned with Palestinians? The Palestinian people are, in the opinion of most genocide scholars, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and most human rights organisations, are being _genocided_. I don’t struggle at all to understand why anyone would align with the Palestinians right now. It seems to be the humane thing to do. > **[LGBTQ aid workers reflect on a year in Gaza, working with queer Palestinians](https://www.washingtonblade.com/2024/10/21/lgbtq-aid-workers-reflect-gaza/)** > > ‘The struggles of all marginalized communities are interconnected’ > [@Rain Dove](#): > > Gaza was different. Over the past two years, Rain Dove Dubilewski has been on the ground helping evacuate conflict areas such as Ukraine, Uganda, and Venezuela. > > But still, nothing prepared them for what they would face in Palestine. “[It] is so much different than any other [conflict zone],” said Dubilewski, explaining that in other areas, there are places to flee and organizations in place to support refugees once they get there. Dubilewski and their team’s job was to facilitate movement and help set up refugees with existing services. This is nearly impossible both in Gaza and in Egypt where the small number of refugees able to evacuate have been able to flee. > > “It became very apparent to me that everything we did was like pouring water into the desert. There was nothing we can offer that is lasting or stable for the Palestinian people,” said Dubilewski. “They need comprehensive, large aid.” Queer people largely aren’t as ignorant of what is happening on the ground as you seem to imagine. They know exactly what is happening. And like any community they talk to each other. > [@](#): > > Over the past year, Safebow has facilitated the evacuation of more than 300 people out of Gaza, which was corroborated by documentation sent by Safebow. > > They have distributed LifeStraws, prosthetics, toys, clothing, food, medication, and thousands of dollars of cash to Palestinian refugees. Throughout Dubilewski’s entire time on the ground, they wore a Pride pin and lanyard that said “I am LGBT” in both English and Arabic. Dubilewski said this only posed a problem once during their work. Numerous other volunteers were trans and queer as well. > [@](#): > > “The struggles of all marginalized communities are interconnected,” she said, “This intersection was always painfully obvious to me as the first-generation gay daughter of a low-income immigrant family living in NYC.” Nagpal specifically points to pinkwashing – “a horrific way to excuse violence in our name”— as a way queer and Palestinian struggles are interconnected. If you were confused, I hope that clears things up. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/127 "2025-08-10T00:15:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you were confused, I hope that clears things up. No. You’ve outlined the general progressive argument. I asked specifically about _Queers for Palestine_; why they specifically would choose to align in that way and draw a parallel between the two groups. That there are some queer people there is not really an argument unless they were somehow overrepresented or differentially targeted or the like. But any unequal treatment seems to come entirely from Hamas and other Palestinians. The byline of the article you linked to is: > The struggles of all marginalized communities are interconnected Which is just another way of saying that the details are irrelevant; only oppression matters. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/128 "2025-08-10T00:22:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I asked specifically about _Queers for Palestine_; why they specifically would choose to align in that way and draw a parallel between the two groups. …what are you still not understanding? There are queer people in Palestine. They are being bombed and sniped and starved and genocided. Queers for Palestine want that to stop. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That there are some queer people there is not really an argument Of _course_ it is! How could it _not_ be? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > unless they were somehow overrepresented or differentially targeted or the like. Why would this matter? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > But any unequal treatment seems to come entirely from Hamas and other Palestinians. Why would they only care about “unequal” treatment? Do you think Queers for Palestine draw a line here? If you take the wording literally, it isn’t just about “unequal treatment.” Its about _treatment_. And keeping them alive is certainly a thing that queers for Palestine want to happen. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Which is just another way of saying that the details are irrelevant; only oppression matters. It means _exactly what it says_. It doesn’t say “details are irrelevant.” And did you miss the queer person _not_ getting murdered by Palestinians? Are you going to withdraw that? Because it’s a pretty ugly stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/129 "2025-08-10T00:42:31Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > How could it _not_ be? Because there are queers everywhere. It doesn’t tell you anything about this specific instance. Again: what makes this specifically about queers instead of being a generic progressive argument? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > And did you miss the queer person _not_ getting murdered by Palestinians? Are you going to withdraw that? No, that’s ridiculous, because I can find all kinds of stories about Palestinians being imprisoned or tortured or put to death for being gay. Finding exceptions or that aid workers get different treatment than natives hardly contradicts that. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It doesn’t say “details are irrelevant.” Then name something other than oppression itself. The person that made the statement sure couldn’t. The irony here is that “intersectionality” argues against the claim being made. Obviously, the life experience of a gay Palestinian is so different than a gay NYCer that they might as well be on different planets. Even the notion of “low-income” doesn’t mean remotely the same thing in the two cases–“low-income” for an NYCer is “fabulously wealthy” for a Palestinian. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/130 "2025-08-10T00:52:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Well, that would exclude Palestinians as being oppressed since the violence has hardly been one-sided. The problem is that you see the groups as Palestinians and Israelis. Those are not the relevant groups. Palestinians are not oppressed: almost all Hamas terrorists who carried out the attacks were Palestinians, and those individuals were not oppressed in the sense of one-sided violence. But the babies attacked on October 7, and the babies bombed in the years since, are oppressed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/131 "2025-08-10T01:05:03Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The problem is that you see the groups as Palestinians and Israelis. This is true (not that it’s a problem, but that is how I view things). I think it’s a war, and wars involve nations. It’s sad that German and Japanese children died from US bombs in WW2, but… that’s the way it goes. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But the babies attacked on October 7, and the babies bombed in the years since, are oppressed. Also the coworker of mine that’s still being held hostage and the two family members of coworkers that were murdered on Oct 7. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/132 "2025-08-10T01:06:34Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Because there are queers everywhere. …yes. And? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It doesn’t tell you anything about this specific instance. Again: what makes this specifically about queers instead of being a generic progressive argument? It’s a statement of _solidarity_. It doesn’t need to be any _more_ than that. Its saying we stand with the queer people and innocents in Gaza, and we will do all that we can to prevent your exterminiation. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > No, that’s ridiculous Not it isn’t. Because you said this: > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I still think, personally, that they are deeply confused, but not about the specific understanding that the people they support mostly want them dead. They don’t “mostly want them dead.” You didn’t draw a line between the actions of both Hamas and the Palestinian authority. And yes, torture and killing isn’t confined to _just_ the authorities. But saying that _Palestinians_ “mostly want them dead” ignores the reality of what it’s like to live under repressive regimes. Its _reductive_. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Finding exceptions or that aid workers get different treatment than natives hardly contradicts that. Rain _addressed this in the video_. Their team was made up of local LGBTQ people. They all survived. And they talk about all the other LGBTQ Palestinians they found _everywhere they went_. The people that are killing most queer people at the moment? > [@The Guardian](#): > > One friend in [Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza) told me he only wished to live in peace, away from conservatism, religious extremism and war. I later discovered he lost both of his parents and his brother, as well as cousins, in Israel’s onslaught. Another friend from Jerusalem told me he had a message for the west: that freedom comes in many layers. “We are under occupation and facing an ongoing genocide,” he said. **“So the first layer is simply to exist.”** > **[I’m a queer Palestinian. Stop using my identity as cover for the destruction...](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/25/queer-palestinian-identity-gaza-rights)** > > Rightwingers in Israel and the US claim they are defending LGBTQ+ rights while Gaza’s people are killed. Don’t dare do this in our name, says British-Palestinian video producer and journalist Jad Salfiti **Bolding** mine. It’s exactly the same message that Rain said in the video, in the interview. Yes: the struggle is important. But the Palestinians are being exterminated. And stopping that is more important than anything else _right now_. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Then name something other than oppression itself. Did you read the interview? Or just stop after that sentence? > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The person that made the statement sure couldn’t. They sure could. And they did. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > The irony here is that “intersectionality” argues against the claim being made. There is no “irony”, and I don’t think you understand what “intersectionality” means. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Obviously, the life experience of a gay Palestinian is so different than a gay NYCer that they might as well be on different planets. Even the notion of “low-income” doesn’t mean remotely the same thing in the two cases–“low-income” for an NYCer is “fabulously wealthy” for a Palestinian. What on _earth_ does this have to do with anything? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/133 "2025-08-10T01:20:15Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > It’s a statement of _solidarity_. Solidarity with _what_? Oppression? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Or just stop after that sentence? No, I just thought that was important since that’s where they picked the byline from. There are other important elements, like: > And then you have people who’ve never met another queer person at all in Gaza. > You have people who are very aware that they don’t identify as queer as their first identity, even if they do identify as queer, their first identity is Palestinian Gee, why could this possibly be? Do the Israelis have anti-queer missiles? Or is the threat more from their neighbors? > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What on _earth_ does this have to do with anything? Sorry if you haven’t been following the thread, but the topic of intersectionality and its relationship to progressivism has come up multiple times. Maybe try reading from the beginning. Or heck, read your own link since the speaker brings up “intersection”. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/134 "2025-08-10T01:23:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Do the Israelis have anti-queer missiles? No, but their population is on track to become 100% solidly anti-LGBTQ by 2200 or so: [https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredim-are-fastest-growing-population-will-be-16-of-israelis-by-decades-end/amp/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/haredim-are-fastest-growing-population-will-be-16-of-israelis-by-decades-end/amp/) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/135 "2025-08-10T01:27:52Z")
Well, I ain’t gonna say that Israel’s perfect in LGBT rights. But if I was some flavor of LGBT, there’s no other place in the Middle East I’d rather be. Maybe my opinion would differ in 2200, though I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/136 "2025-08-10T01:32:26Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Solidarity with _what_? Oppression? …with _queer people_. In _Palestine_. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > No, I just thought that was important since that’s where they picked the byline from. It _was_ important. But there was a whole-ass article there as well. And this was addressed in the text. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Gee, why could this possibly be? Do the Israelis have anti-queer missiles? Or is the threat more from their neighbors? The threat right now, undeniably, is from the IDF. It isn’t just missiles. It’s the _siege_. The destruction of the healthcare system. The forced “evacuations.” The destruction of nearly all of the housing. Did you know that Palestinians in Gaza have been banned by Israel from fishing? From _swimming_? Are you seriously arguing queer Palestinians are more at threat from their neighbours than they are from the people that, in the eyes of almost every humanitarian organisation on the planet, is committing _genocide_? This isn’t even a debate. I think you are failing to understand what the word “genocide” means, and how putting a stop to that outweighs everything else right now. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Sorry if you haven’t been following the thread, but the topic of intersectionality and its relationship to progressivism has come up multiple times. Maybe try reading from the beginning. Or heck, read your own link since the speaker brings up “intersection”. And none of this has anything to do with “Queers for Palestine.” Queer people _don’t just live in NYC_. It was completely irrelevant to the discussion _we were having_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/137 "2025-08-10T02:00:37Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > It’s still not clear to me what queers have in common with Palestinians aside from being oppressed. Is “common humanity” not enough? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/138 "2025-08-10T10:33:29Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > > > We really don’t like when things are unfair. It’s not really more complicated than that. > > I’d agree with that, but there are _very_ significant differences between left and right in what is considered fair. Yes. I grew up being told that it’s wrong to discriminate against people for characteristics like race and sex. That we should treat everyone as individuals and aim to give each person an equal opportunity in life. But in 2020, the progressive position became that discrimination was good if it helped ensure equal outcomes between groups. Instead of equality, the goal became equity, and fairness to individuals was subordinate to that. The policies that resulted from this view were something that I just couldn’t support. “Positive discrimination” and levelling down in education. As well as the way people were given deference or not in progressive groups according to their immutable characteristics. It wasn’t eliminating hierarchy, it was simply reversing it. These policies are so obviously unfair and unjust, and in the case of education are harming children, particularly disadvantaged ones, for little benefit to anyone else. I understand modern progressives have a different idea of what fairness is and believe they are doing the right thing, even though I disagree. But I don’t think many progressives have that same understanding of liberals and conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/139 "2025-08-10T11:11:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is “common humanity” not enough? It’s enough to oppose the current war, for sure, as well as the long term ill-treatment of Palestinians. I guess the real question is why form “Queers for Palestine” in the first place? Anyone can join or start an organisation to push for Palestinian rights and/or support the Palestinian cause, whether they’re queer or not. What’s the reason for having a specific identity based one when the two causes have nothing particular in common? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868/140 "2025-08-10T16:11:54Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > I think it’s a war, and wars involve nations. Can you point out the nation of Palestine on a map for me? TIA! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-forms-of-information-that-undermine-the-simple-oppressor-vs-oppressed-western-narrative/1021868.md?page=8)