# What are some good books to learn about realpolitik **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761 "2019-02-01T02:20:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/1 "2019-02-01T02:20:15Z")
Seeing how that is what really runs a good portion of the world, if a person wanted to educate themselves about the darker sides of collective psychology and how it influences large scale social movements, what are some good books? The prince - Machiavelli Rules for radicals - saul Alinsky The dictators handbook - Bruce Bueno De Mesquita the logic of political survival - Bruce Bueno De Mesquita Dictator’s Handbook - Randall Wood The lucifer principle - Howard Bloom Any others? ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/2 "2019-02-01T07:41:33Z")
My first thought on reading the thread title was Animal Farm, by George Orwell? Damn you’d think I could remember the author, been a while since I read it though Not sure how educational it really is, but it is certainly interesting commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Dropo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce7236/32.png) [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/3 "2019-02-01T16:27:58Z")
> **[Talleyrand](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/595121.Talleyrand)** > > Unique in his own age and a phenomenon in any, Charles-… Very entertaining and insightful [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3663422/One-of-historys-greatest-most-repugnant-figures.html](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3663422/One-of-historys-greatest-most-repugnant-figures.html) Haven’t read this one, “a radically different view.” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/4 "2019-02-01T16:46:47Z")
Political Parties: A Sociological Study of the Oligarchial Tendencies of Modern Democracy The Rise and Decline of Nations A Parliament of Whores Demosclerosis The Calculus of Consent ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/5 "2019-02-01T16:50:12Z")
[The Prisoners Dilemma](https://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Dilemma-Neumann-Theory-Puzzle/dp/038541580X) Its about Game Theory not politics, but gives a great deal of understanding about people’s and societies’ motivations, from a mathematical point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/6 "2019-02-06T22:08:31Z")
All different, all very good: _Iron Tears_ by Stanley Weintraub is about the American Revolution as seen through British eyes, discussing military affairs, politics, society, economics and diplomacy. _Washington: A Life_ by Ron Chernow describes, among other things, how Washington practically invented the Presidency despite some significant challenges in his two terms. _Kennedy’s Wars_ by Lawrence Freedman is an interesting British perspective on JFK’s Cold War diplomatic and military decision-making, and _Essence of Decision_ by Graham Allison is a classic on crisis management, diplomacy and presidential leadership, focusing on the Cuban Missile Crisis. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2019, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/7 "2019-02-06T23:05:40Z")
I think you might include a book about Hitler. Any recommendations? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/8 "2019-02-07T01:04:23Z")
Thomas Sowell’s _Knowledge and Decisions_ and _The Vision of the Anointed._ ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/9 "2019-02-07T01:50:25Z")
What makes Marx interesting and useful is his insistence that politics needs to be considered in the context of the prevailing economic system. So reading Capital is worthwhile. Reading it in the order it is presented, however, is guaranteed to make most of us blow a head gasket. I’d suggest starting with the section on primitive accumulation, then chapter 10 on the working day. If you’re still interested after that, happy to suggest next steps ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/10 "2019-02-07T02:25:56Z")
Don’t forget Kautilya ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/11 "2019-02-07T03:07:01Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I think you might include a book about Hitler. Any recommendations? Here are some options, none of which I’ve read: [The Best Books on Hitler - Five Books Expert Recommendations](https://fivebooks.com/best-books/hitler-michael-burleigh/) William Shirer’s _The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich_ is still well-regarded, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/12 "2019-02-07T03:57:37Z")
It has been a long time so I cannot remember why, but I thought The Lucifer Principle was a waste of paper and ink. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/13 "2019-02-07T04:01:24Z")
The Will to Power - Freddy Nietzsche. Bit more metaphysics than a ‘how to’ manual, but worth your time for insight into how a mind disregards compassion for personal gain. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/14 "2019-02-07T04:06:42Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Thomas Sowell’s _Knowledge and Decisions_ and _The Vision of the Anointed._ Ha, nice try. Any time I’ve ever mentioned Sowell on this board it’s crickets for days. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/15 "2019-02-07T04:08:30Z")
Any cult leaders write a book? Besides L. Ron Hubbard, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/16 "2019-02-07T05:00:25Z")
“The Autobiography of Lincoln Steffens”. Mostly because it is my favourite book ever (including a lyrical description of his childhood in California, and interesting observations relevant to pedagogy), but also because Lincoln Steffens life work was the observation of realpolitik, and there’s some of that in there too. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/17 "2019-02-07T16:20:28Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > The Will to Power - Freddy Nietzsche. Bit more metaphysics than a ‘how to’ manual, but worth your time for insight into how a mind disregards compassion for personal gain. Keep in mind, _The Will to Power_ reflects his sister’s philosophy more than his own. from [Friedrich Nietzsche - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche) > [@](#): > > Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche compiled The Will to Power from Nietzsche’s unpublished notebooks and published it posthumously. Because his sister arranged the book based on her own conflation of several of Nietzsche’s early outlines and took great liberties with the material, the scholarly consensus has been that it does not reflect Nietzsche’s intent. (For example, Elisabeth removed aphorism 35 of The Antichrist, where Nietzsche rewrote a passage of the Bible.) Indeed, Mazzino Montinari, the editor of Nietzsche’s Nachlass, called it a forgery.[95] ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/18 "2019-02-08T15:22:19Z")
One that really seems relevant these days: It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis Another one that seems prophetic with what’s going on in America lately; it’s long and somewhat hard to find but a really good read with a killer ending: Unintended Consequences by John Ross ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/19 "2019-02-08T15:50:29Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Any cult leaders write a book? Besides L. Ron Hubbard, I mean. Ironically, l Ron Hubbard did write a book called ‘brain washing’ that he pretended was written by beria, who was head of the secret police in the ussr. ---
**Author:** ![Evin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@Evin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761/20 "2019-02-08T17:52:17Z")
**The True Believer** Eric Hoffer (1951) • “Such diverse phenomena as a deprecation of the present, a facility for make-believe, a proneness to hate, a readiness to imitate, credulity, a readiness to attempt the impossible, and many others which crowd the minds of the intensely frustrated are, as we shall see, unifying agents and prompters of recklessness.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-good-books-to-learn-about-realpolitik/828761.md?page=2)