What are some of the mindsets of poor people that keeps them poor?

Oh no. This is really a horrible, horrible story. :frowning: My best friend has a little boy with quite severe autism - he’s been in a special placement school since he was about 2.5 (or 3 maybe) and while she was heartbroken to be sending her 3 year old to school 5 days a week, the progress he has made since going there has been remarkable. He still has good days and bad days, and is still sort of ‘odd’ however, the relationships he has with his parents and sibling have improved 10 fold and when my husband go and visit he’s like a different little person.

I really hope that the mom in this story tries the homeschool thing for a month or two and then sends daughter to professionals. While I think that homeschooling might work for ‘normal’ children, children with autism really need assistance from professionals.

I encountered that when I lived in New Mexico, but it often took a religious spin. “The Virgin of Guadalupe made my great grandfather poor, my grandfather poor, and my father poor, so why should I bother?” They felt it was their destiny to be poor, so why should they bother? This attitude gets passed on; “Why should I bother trying to give my children a better life? They’re just going to end up poor too.”

Often these folks would live out in a plot of land in a remote desert colonia. It was quite common to see run-down pre-HUD single-wide mobile homes with $40,000 pickup trucks in front. At the time, I wondered “I’m a working professional who has to struggle just to afford a used late-model compact car, and here are all these people with minimum wage construction jobs that have six kids and a loaded heavy-duty dually crew cab truck. How do they pull it off?”

I think that generational poverty is related to not instilling the value of education into children, and not pushing them to attend college, or even just to better themselves. You may be poor, but that doesn’t mean your children have to be, too. Still, why fight the Virgin of Guadalupe wants? :rolleyes:

It could be my poverty talking and will make a fine example of the poor person mindset, but I believe people like you are rare. After working for many wealthy people and having them in my family, people who have taken advantage of their poorer relatives in HUGE ways, I’ve seen it too many times to not believe it.
I don’t have any grudges against wealthy people, and I do know a few who aren’t this way. Most of them came from poverty and worked their way up. My best, oldest friend is like this. We came from almost identical households. Her main claim to wealth is marrying a guy with a highly valued talent. They’ve built up a nice pile of money, but they also do a lot for the community around here. They treat everyone with compassion and kindness.

But people like that seem to be few and far between. I’m poor not stupid. I know when someone is looking down on me. I see wealthy people taking advantage of Mig all the time, giving him jobs but never paying him, and I imagine they are the first ones to complain about the illegals ruining the country, but let them need a new roof or a ditch dug and they’ll be glad to hire someone they can pay 5 bucks an hour to, and act like it’s charity when they short you twenty bucks for a glass of tea and sandwich they had their housekeeper whip up for lunch so you don’t take a whole hour off.

There are still lots of people who do precisely what your uncles did to improve their lives. That has by no means gone away, and it’s probably gotten easier now that online classes are commonly offered.

I wish I could remember who said it, but someone once said that being poor means being stuck with choices that you didn’t know you made when you were fourteen. Education take time to pay off. My partner works at a high-poverty school district and one of the things they fear are kids dropping out to work menial jobs because the pay seems really high when you’re 16. This short-changes them in the long run, but they’re thinking about the short-run. One of their top students basically dropped off the face of the earth because he was working retail to help his parents pay their bills when they both got laid off.

It does indeed regress towards the mean, but there is still some correlation (the exact degree not yet quite determined) between parental IQ and child IQ. Two parents with IQs of 150 are not just as likely to have a baby with IQs of 80 as are two parents with an IQ of 80–not even close.

This strikes me as a fishy assertion. Just a bit of evidence to the contrary:

I’m not an expert on psychometrics, IQ, or poverty, but I was under the impression that the correlation between IQ and income in the United States was pretty well established, and that it was particularly well-established that poorer people tend to have lower IQs. I cited one research article that I found on Google Scholar which gives support to this view.

I’m from the lower middle class. My mother finalized her bankruptcy declaration about half a year ago.

You might very well be smarter than me. I think there are tons of people on this board who are just flat-out smarter than me; you might be one of them. But it doesn’t matter with regards to the issue of what keeps poor people poor.

Random Family does a lot to explain how poor people can end up rejecting education as a viable means out of poverty. When she started following Cesar, Jessica, and Coco as teenagers, none of them cared about school because they were either wrapped up in being criminals or dating criminals. Cesar gets serious about education in prison, where he really doesn’t have a lot of options otherwise for passing the time. By the time Coco decides to go to school, she reads at a fifth-grade level and she doesn’t have the support network to raise her family and go to school long enough to develop any skills that earn real money.

madmonk28 beat me too it. No; regardless of what you like to believe as a rule if you are born poor you stay poor. Who you know and who your ancestors were outweighs any amount of effort on your part. And personal anecdotes about your supposed wealth and nobility don’t mean much since they are both unverifiable and at best apply to you alone.

I hate dragging religion into this, but they are fundamentalist Christians who believe public schools are cesspools of evil. They have an awesome early school for autistic children here in Memphis but she prefers to keep her daughter at home in front of that TV, allowing a therapist to come in to the home twice a week instead. I doubt it will change unless the child gets to be too much for her to handle. I hope it does though. I’ve seen remarkable changes myself when a child with special needs gets what they need socially.

I personally love that my little girl is in school. She started out Pre-K in CDC classes but now she’s mainstreamed into regular Kindergarten with and IEP and special services. Her language skills have soared since she started school. One of the reasons we haven’t gotten a definite diagnosis is because she went from completely non-verbal at three to only about a year behind and academically she’s far above the other kindergartners. Ha ha but now I’m getting off topic, tooting my own horn. :slight_smile:

I am sorry to hear that you think people like me are rare, but it sounds like you know two people like that now! Your friend and me, and frankly on the threads I have seen Dangerosa post in, she is also very generous with her wealth (not sure if she came from a poor background though).

Perhaps what you say is true, I have to admit I have no way of knowing one way or the other. My homelife growing up was very poor, but my mother and father (even though and likely because, they hadn’t finished high school) really put a big value on education and stressed it early in my life. I loved to read as a child (and it was free because of the library) and that I think started me on my path to where I am.

I do agree that you never can escape your roots though. My wife has mentioned how I phsycially react whenever we go into a thrift store. The is a smell there that triggers my child hood memories of being poor and I struggle with that. But since I was born poor and ‘know’ poor I never do the things that you say happen to Mig (who I assume is your husband?). I find that in general I am much more sympathetic to a poor person since I know where they are coming from.

Perhaps that is true as I only have my personal experience to draw from. And for the record I never said anything about my nobility! Twisting my words to fit your agenda is not cool in the least. And for the record I am not conservative but I am not overly liberal either–but I tend to fall on your side of the equation more often then not, but find ‘your’ brand of liberal a bit off putting to say the least.

I’ve scored standardized test essays off and on for years. The prompt, “Hard Work or Luck?” was very enlightening.

The students who picked, “Luck” almost universally thought the only ways to success were to become a pro athlete or a rapper. These were almost always low scoring essays with numerous grammar and spelling errors. If they didn’t make it in the NBA or as a rapper, they thought the only other option was to become a gangster.

I believe a lot of these students don’t see any successful people besides rappers or athletes.

I my case, yes I am lower-income, it has been an inability to get a better-paying job.

I have poor social skills, & even though I have a degree, I can’t translate this into a good job.

Currently, I am a low-paid bureaucrat.

Regarding the ‘crabs in a pot’ mentality, it doesn’t just end at the workplace. I’ve heard stories of people cutting up fridge boxes in poor neighborhoods so their neighbors don’t find out they’ve bought a new appliance, for fear of making themselves a target for burglary. The rich prey on the poor, but they’re not the only predators in the game.

But most of the time, it’s a little bit more mild than that; in many poor neighborhoods, if you get a lucky break and wind up having more than your neighbor, then you can’t get them off your porch. They’re always over for one thing or another. That drains you dry pretty quickly when you run out of money and all your bicycles and power tools wind up never being returned, and pretty soon, you’re back down in the pot with everyone else. For most people in this neighborhood, it isn’t an option to say ‘no,’ because of the ‘we’re all in this together’ mentality. If you’re stingy, you’re ostracized, and few people are willing to incur that penalty.

I have known numerous poor people, both highly educated and uneducated. All of them have one thing in common; they all follow the path of least resistance. School is hard, college is hard, shopping economically is hard, budgeting is hard, holding off on buying a big-screen TV is hard. The mindset is to do what they see everyone else doing (in real life and on TV). When that’s what you see as the norm, you have no incentive to struggle out of it.

I’m not talking about industrious people who through no fault of their own are thrust into poverty through disability or the like, but are able to budget and make the best with what they have. Many poor people just will not accept that if they can’t afford something, they shouldn’t buy it, or if they learn how to grocery shop selectively and learn how to cook, they’ll save money. They blindly go about their lives refusing to look at their budgets, figuring it’ll all work out in the end somehow. The foolish buying decisions they make just boggle my mind. They really think that a large-screen TV is their right because they want one, or that buying a $6 box of Minute Rice because they “don’t know how to cook” won’t have an impact on their food money allotments. It’s just easier to overlook distasteful facts.

It’s not unreasonable to assume that some impoverished people might have lower IQs. That’s not to say that all of them do, just that low IQ people are likely to be impoverished. But having a low IQ doesn’t mean they can’t budget or shop economically, and high IQ people have the same problems with not living within their means, even though they have the ability to get higher-paying jobs.

Or like Lance Armstrong said, “It’s not about the bike.”

Malcolm Forbes Sr. gave a talk with Bill Gates years ago about what it takes to succeed. Bill went on and on about education and intelligence. Malcolm Forbes said it all depends how much lead the person has in his pants. In other words, energy trumps everything else. Many poor people are smart and lazy at the same time. They refuse to take the steps NOW that will put them on the track for tomorrow. I have known people who had no education and worked three jobs until they were wealthy. I knew one borderline retarded man who got ahead by asking everybody questions. He compared all the answers and selected the best path for him. He soon learned not to trust his own decisions or make impulsive decisions.

Ah, and now we get to the classic “the poor are all lazy” bit. Which is nonsense; plenty of poor people work hard all their lives and die poor.

From the OP:

This thread is about habits that keep people poorer than they need to be. Nobody’s saying all poor people are lazy.

Some poor people are smart and lucky enough that they are almost at the brink of not being poor, but their lives have not given them the right education they need to make it over the edge into a comfortable lifestyle.

I know someone who was raised poor. Brought up in the projects, went to crappy schools, received free lunch, etc. But she was a smart kid and stayed on the straight-and-narrow. She got a scholarship to college and was able to leave the “hood”. She told me she struggled in school, because although she’s smart, her education hadn’t prepared her well. And like many college students, she got snookered by credit card companies and racked up some debt. But she still managed to get internships and graduate, and then get employed by the state. She had officially “made it”, for a poor kid from a single-parent houshold.

She was making an okay living, but she wanted the full-fledged American Dream. Which means buying a house, usually. She upgraded her job so she could get a better salary and save up for a decent downpayment on a house. Her criteria were simple…maybe too simple. She basically just wanted a house in the city so she could take public transportation to work. She found one that she liked, even though it’s in a not-so-safe part of town and it’s really old. She qualified for a special program for first-time homeowners, so she didn’t have to put down too much money for it. And then she was able to use some of the money she had saved up to fix the place up.

So far, so good.

But for some reason, that wasn’t enough. She got suckered into buying a time share. She convinced her mother to partner up with her, despite knowing that her mother was bad with money. But she figured together they’d be able to pull it off and reap whatever benefits come with a time share (I still don’t know what they are and I don’t think she did either).

She thought wrong. Her mother “helps” her out when she can with the fees, which is maybe twice a year, even though they were supposed to go 50/50 on this venture.

She still has the house, but she doesn’t have money to get the squirrels out of the attic, or to fix the leaky ceiling in her utility room, or the myriad of other repairs her house needs. Her house isn’t very insulated (the squirrels’ handiwork probably doesn’t help), so her heating and AC costs are expensive. It’s August and she just finished paying her heating bill from last winter. She has no savings–just her falling-apart house and a time share she never uses since she never goes anywhere. She told me that if something catastrophic were to happen, she would be lost.

So she’s in a bad situation. Everyone who works with her knows about it, because she’s constantly telling us about it. And yet here’s the thing: she’s always got nice microwavable stuff from Trader Joe’s for lunch, along with huge heaping bowls of fruit–usually multiple kinds. Most people are fine with just an orange or a banana, but she’s got to have bing cherries with kiwis with other stuff you can’t even pronounce. She’s very much into good nutrition, so she spends serious dough for high-quality foods. She scoffs whenever you mention buying “store-brand” anything. My lunches, which are very simple affairs (usually cheese toast with a banana) look like prison slop compared to hers. And then once she told me she’s got 300 pairs of underwear. She no doubt has a similar number of shoes. She gets her hair done every two weeks (you don’t need a touch-up that often unless you’ve got kudzu for hair). She told me she has no savings and is basically living paycheck-to-paycheck, but I don’t see her acting like she is. Of course, when she complains about being fat and you suggest joining the Y, she cites poverty as an excuse. And don’t dare mention walking around the neighborhood. It’s too dangerous, she says. I don’t doubt that it’s too dangerous for her liking, but if she had waited a few years before buying an old house in a bad neighborhood, she could have gotten a newer place in a nicer part of town where one could go for walks. And maybe find a man who isn’t, in her words, a “thug.” Just saying…

So I don’t know what’s going to happen to her. Maybe one day someone will release her from her burdensome time share, she’ll be able fix her attic, and she will be able to save some money. I don’t think she’s an irresponsible person, just naive. But I think her upbringing in a low-income household, with a mother who isn’t that educated in the ways of the world, didn’t do her any favors.