# What are some \*subtle\* differences among various dialects of English? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 12, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145 "2017-09-12T06:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/141 "2017-09-14T03:04:21Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Learnt vs. learned is another. > > And half 9 means 9:30. Bottom of the hour is even more confusing for people who don’t think in terms of a clock face very often. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/142 "2017-09-14T03:14:48Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I don’t know if it’s a personal quirk or an Indian English expression but one of the guys I work with acknowledges a new fact with a very simple “Oh is it?” The meaning is clear, and the logic is obvious, but it’s not a construction I find at all familiar. > > Just an occasion like he will mention that he is going down three floors to the vending machine, and I will say that there is a vending machine machine on this floor, hidden around the corner behind the receptionist, or letting him know we are hiring a new tester, he says “Oh is it?” I explained that badly. The phrase is commonly used obviously, but in respect to a specific object that is the topic of the conversion. Like “That new building is going to be 100 stories tall” “Oh is it?” or “That desk is made of recycled toenails” “Oh is it?” are common. Using “it” to refer to the general state or situation described in a statement is a different, unfamiliar usage. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/143 "2017-09-14T03:32:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Pittsburg > h. Not the one in California. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/144 "2017-09-14T04:03:00Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Not the one in California. **John Mace** was referring to the one in Pennsylvania. That one gets an “h” at the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![jerez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c68b51/32.png) [@jerez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jerez)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/145 "2017-09-14T06:56:56Z")
In the UK and other parts, “should” can be used as a conditional, which is pretty much restricted to obligation in the US. For example, to express an opinion, some people say: “I should think that…” About “quite,” I think it sometimes implies a lesser degree than “very” when the two are used together. One person: “What about (x)?” Another: “It’s very good.” One person: “What about (y)?” Another: Well, it’s quite good, but…" Otherwise, without the contrast, they’re interchangeable. Years ago, I heard someone from the UK say “sideboards” instead of “sideburns.” Haven’t come across that since. A friend from Ireland has a peculiar way of ending all of our phone conversations. When it becomes obvious that we’re drawing to a close, he’ll start to say things like, “Well, nice talking to you,” “I gotta run,” “Talk to you soon,” etc., but he’ll accelerate the speed and pitch of his delivery in an uninterrupted stream until he hangs up (“rings off” in UK). It was unsettling the first time I heard it, because it sounded like he was having to deal with something urgent and unexpected. Someone upthread mentioned “have” (present perfect tense), and I agree that it’s an important UK/US difference when describing a recent event that affects the present. “I can’t get in because I’ve lost my keys” (UK). “I can’t get in because I lost my keys” (US). ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/146 "2017-09-14T07:48:33Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > I explained that badly. The phrase is commonly used obviously, but in respect to a specific object that is the topic of the conversion. > > Like > “That new building is going to be 100 stories tall” > “Oh is it?” > > or > “That desk is made of recycled toenails” > “Oh is it?” > > are common. Using “it” to refer to the general state or situation described in a statement is a different, unfamiliar usage. I had a workmate in Bristol (who was very local, and frankly one of those people who was very proud of being English because he had nothing else whatever to be proud of, definitely not Indian) who used to do that. “I went to XX at the weekend.” “Oh, is it?” Pretty sure it’s a local thing there as well, if not a very common one. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/147 "2017-09-14T11:31:00Z")
I finally figured out what **quite** means to me. If you just say, for example, “it’s chilly today,” that could mean a wide range of temperatures – let’s call it from “0% chilly” to “100% chilly.” If you say “it’s quite chilly today,” that restricts the range – at _both_ ends. For me, this puts it around the 60% to 80% range. So, yes, it is an “intensifier,” in that you’re saying it will be chillier than your average chilly day – BUT you’re also saying it WON’T be _horrendously_ chilly (and that’s why “quite” can sometimes be used to damn with faint praise.) Oh, and sloe’s mini-review of Lexicon Valley is spot-on. I adore John McWhorter (as longtime Dopers know), but sometimes I miss the banter of those other guys. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/148 "2017-09-14T11:38:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Pittsburg > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > h. I have a small satin/velour covered box that contains a tie tack, from a jewelery store in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. The spelling helps date the box to a period of time when the “h” wasn’t used (pre-1911). [Cite](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Pittsburgh) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/149 "2017-09-14T13:29:46Z")
As a young man, I was acutely aware of language differences because I was linguistically marked as an outsider. I also had to learn the separate rules on talking to young women because I had no experience with that. So it was interesting to observe that the young men and women I knew were “two countries separated by a common language”. I don’t remember any of that now, except the discussion about the meaning of the word “Sheila”, a traditional Australian colloquialism described elsewhere as a word a women would “never use about herself”. Because to the blokes I knew, it was a value-neutral term: to the young women, it was a derogatory term. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/150 "2017-09-14T14:47:21Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > … > the discussion about the meaning of the word “Sheila”, a traditional Australian colloquialism described elsewhere as a word a women would “never use about herself”. Because to the blokes I knew, it was a value-neutral term: to the young women, it was a derogatory term. There’s a lot of that kind of thing in most English-speaking societies. Maybe in other languages too, but I’m not qualified on that. Something about young men valuing young women for something other than what young women value themselves for. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/151 "2017-09-14T14:54:22Z")
So there’s a construction that I’ve encountered a couple times that rather intrigues me. I assume it’s Irish because both of the songwriters in question are Irish. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Black 47** : > Would you ever go over to Czechoslovakia, marry my daughter for me? > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Sinead O’Connor:** > And if you ever came home in the night, darlin’ I’ll treat you right In American construction, the …you ever… implies a thing that is only theoretical - in the first example, the speaker would be asking if going to Czechoslovakia to marry his daughter is something that the listener would be morally opposed to or not, in general. In the second example, the speaker is implying that the listener NEVER comes home but, in theory if they did, x would happen. However, in the context of the songs, it seems to be more immediate - in the first example, the speaker is in fact trying to make a deal with the listener to go marry his daughter ASAP, and in the second she seems to mean it more like “if you should happen to” come home without the implication that, on their own, the listener never would do so. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/152 "2017-09-14T17:03:29Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > This was great. Ignore anything I said in the thread. Listen to this instead. I just now heard [this more recent episode](http://www.slate.com/articles/podcasts/lexicon_valley/2017/07/john_mcwhorter_on_the_history_and_evolution_of_no_and_not.html). From 26:00 to 29:00, it gives a more succinct explanation of “yeah, no” that I think you’ll find equally worth a listen. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/153 "2017-09-14T17:14:14Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > So there’s a construction that I’ve encountered a couple times that rather intrigues me. I assume it’s Irish because both of the songwriters in question are Irish. > > In American construction, the …you ever… implies a thing that is only theoretical - in the first example, the speaker would be asking if going to Czechoslovakia to marry his daughter is something that the listener would be morally opposed to or not, in general. In the second example, the speaker is implying that the listener NEVER comes home but, in theory if they did, x would happen. > > However, in the context of the songs, it seems to be more immediate - in the first example, the speaker is in fact trying to make a deal with the listener to go marry his daughter ASAP, and in the second she seems to mean it more like “if you should happen to” come home without the implication that, on their own, the listener never would do so. Not quite the same thing, but this reminds me of something I used to notice about Drew Carey, back in the days when he was hosting _Whose Line Is it Anyway?_ In setting up the “Weird Newscasters” game, he would usually say, “Take it away _whenever_ you hear the music.” Whereupon they would play a dramatic 6-o’clock news style musical sting to start the improv. His use of “whenever” in that sentence always bugged me. There would only be one occurrence of the music, and then the game would start. So he should have said “_when_ you hear the music.” To my ear, “whenever” implies that the music will be heard multiple times, and you have to do something each time it happens. That’s not what was going on at all. Whenever = multiple events When = single event Right? Or is this another regional difference I’ve never noticed before? ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/154 "2017-09-14T17:23:58Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Not quite the same thing, but this reminds me of something I used to notice about Drew Carey, back in the days when he was hosting _Whose Line Is it Anyway?_ In setting up the “Weird Newscasters” game, he would usually say, “Take it away _whenever_ you hear the music.” Whereupon they would play a dramatic 6-o’clock news style musical sting to start the improv. > > His use of “whenever” in that sentence always bugged me. There would only be one occurrence of the music, and then the game would start. So he should have said “_when_ you hear the music.” To my ear, “whenever” implies that the music will be heard multiple times, and you have to do something each time it happens. That’s not what was going on at all. > > Whenever = multiple events > When = single event > > Right? Or is this another regional difference I’ve never noticed before? Definitely a regional difference. We never used the word “whenever” that way when (or, as these people would say, whenever) I was growing up in the Philadelphia area. I first encountered it in college, from a person who was from Pittsburgh. I later heard a person from South Carolina use it that way as well. It’s interesting because it’s like the word “when” doesn’t exist for them; they only use “whenever.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/155 "2017-09-14T17:38:22Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Not quite the same thing, but this reminds me of something I used to notice about Drew Carey, back in the days when he was hosting _Whose Line Is it Anyway?_ In setting up the “Weird Newscasters” game, he would usually say, “Take it away _whenever_ you hear the music.” Whereupon they would play a dramatic 6-o’clock news style musical sting to start the improv. > > His use of “whenever” in that sentence always bugged me. There would only be one occurrence of the music, and then the game would start. So he should have said “_when_ you hear the music.” To my ear, “whenever” implies that the music will be heard multiple times, and you have to do something each time it happens. That’s not what was going on at all. > > Whenever = multiple events > When = single event > > Right? Or is this another regional difference I’ve never noticed before? I think this is regional. I have a friend from Pittsburgh who always says “whenever” when I would say “when.” ---
**Author:** ![epolo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@epolo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epolo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/156 "2017-09-14T17:50:36Z")
Funny. I agree that “whenever you hear the music” implies to my ears that there are likely to be multiple instances of music. But if there were no music I would almost certainly say “whenever you’re ready” even though that phrase would be equally intelligible with “when”. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/157 "2017-09-14T17:51:20Z")
Interesting that you both mention Pittsburgh. Drew Carey is famously from Cleveland, which is not far from the Pennsylvania border. It seems to be more widespread than just the Pittsburgh region. On the other hand, I’m from Indiana, and it doesn’t seem to have reached us! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/158 "2017-09-14T17:56:58Z")
To me, whenever means either there will be multiple events or that there is no time limit. “Do this whenever you have the chance” is gentler to my ear than “do this when you have the chance.” ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/159 "2017-09-14T18:05:51Z")
The word “scheme” can be a bit disconcerting. In British English it just means “a plan”. In US English “scheme” generally means “an unsavory plan”. When reading on the 'Net I have to stop sometimes and check the source to see which meaning to infer. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145/160 "2017-09-14T18:58:59Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I have a small satin/velour covered box that contains a tie tack, from a jewelery store in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. The spelling helps date the box to a period of time when the “h” wasn’t used (pre-1911). > [Cite](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Pittsburgh) I like the name of the local brand of bottled water, “PGH[sub]2[/sub]O.” 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-subtle-differences-among-various-dialects-of-english/796145.md?page=9)