# What are some tell-tale behaviors of a person trying to score pseudoephedrine to make meth? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 15, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163 "2009-07-15T22:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/21 "2009-07-17T03:24:03Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Are the folks who make it typically themselves users? I would have thought that the manufacturers would be a separate set of people, doing it just for the profit. Even if the person running the lab isn’t using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called “smurfs” to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores. Not much compensation there, I’m sure, and they likely recruit users. Plus, these kitchen meth labs are hardly professional operations. That’s what’s so nasty about it - you have some goof who pulled a “recipe” off the internet, and doesn’t really understand anything about chemistry or lab procedure, heating up flammable organic solvents on their kitchen stoves. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/22 "2009-07-17T05:02:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Even if the person running the lab isn’t using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called “smurfs” to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores. Not much compensation there, I’m sure, and they likely recruit users. Ah, that would make sense. Reduce the risk to the guy in charge, and the “employees” come cheap, since you can pay them in product. And meth would be quite nasty enough just from the effects on its users, even if it didn’t come with the risk of explosions and fires in its production. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/23 "2009-07-17T11:27:09Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Even if the person running the lab isn’t using it, they likely have to enlist several so-called “smurfs” to buy pseudoephedrine for them in small purchases at several stores. I’ve always wondered why they’re called “smurfs.” Anybody know? ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/24 "2009-07-17T15:13:08Z")
I think it has to do with having a large group of small entities to accomplish a goal. I got that from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurfing_(crime)). I guess it was originally used for money laundering, but its the same principal. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/25 "2009-07-17T15:28:31Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > I’ve always wondered why they’re called “smurfs.” Anybody know? I thought it was because they so often use children. Kids can’t get as much jail time . . . and are cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/26 "2009-07-17T16:53:26Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I think it has to do with having a large group of small entities to accomplish a goal. I got that from [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurfing_(crime)). I guess it was originally used for money laundering, but its the same principal. Same association is at the root of [“smurf attack”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smurf_attack) for a type of denial of service attack on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/27 "2009-07-17T17:00:21Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > And some of them look like [this](http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugIssue/MethResources/faces/photo_8.html).:eek: Wow! That is scary! How does the drug manage to affect their appearance so drastically? (I am thinking of the disgusting-looking marks on their face.) ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/28 "2009-07-17T18:40:42Z")
> [@gytalf2000](#): > > Wow! That is scary! > > How does the drug manage to affect their appearance so drastically? > (I am thinking of the disgusting-looking marks on their face.) The habitual user may feel there is something under their skin and scratch themselves. 40 years ago the most common term for meth was Speed. One of the most effective anti-drug messages of the late 60’s was “Speed Kills.” [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,902103,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,902103,00.html) Here’s the kicker…the government didn’t launch that campaign. Members of the drug community (LSD, dope, etc.) came up with the buttons with those two words on them. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/29 "2009-07-17T19:22:25Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > 40 years ago the most common term for meth was Speed. When exactly did crystal meth in its current incarnation hit the streets? I don’t remember it existing when I was in high school in the late 1970’s. We still called it ‘speed’ back then, and it was available illicitly as diverted pharmaceutical products. There was also something called ‘Christmas trees,’ but I can’t remember what those were. But in 1979, There wasn’t meth that you could buy by the gram or partial gram, and nothing that you could smoke. But ten years after that, it was all over the place. The 1985 movie [Witness](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090329/) makes reference to the P2P reduction synthesis, so that seems to narrow it down to sometime between 1980 to 1985. I checked the DEA’s web page, but couldn’t find any information there. When did the biker gangs first start manufacturing and distributing the substance? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/30 "2009-07-17T19:58:52Z")
Common illicit manufacture of methamphetamine goes back into the sixties. The “P2P” process refers to phenyl-2-propanone, also called phenylacetone, which was the basis for the clandestine production largely controlled by the outlaw biker gangs at that time. Around 1980, the FDA restricted this chemical specifically because it was a precursor to methamphetamine. That gave rise to the present methods of manufacture using ephedrine or psuedoephedrine. Note that amphetamines in general were not strictly controlled following WWII, and were widely available throughout the 1950s, including OTC benzedrine inhalers, and “little white pills” (dexedrine) used by truckers. In 1965, the FDA made amphetamines prescription only, as the level of abuse became apparent. They further restricted in 1971. ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/31 "2009-07-17T20:41:26Z")
So ‘crank’ existed when I was in high school, but it just wasn’t in widespread use at the time? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163/32 "2009-07-18T23:32:48Z")
> [@Washoe](#): > > So ‘crank’ existed when I was in high school, but it just wasn’t in widespread use at the time? Methamphetamine was certainly being produced, and I definitely remember hearing the term “crank” in the early 70s. This article gives a general time line about in keeping with my understanding: > **[North County – San Diego Union-Tribune](https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/location/california/san-diego-county/north-county/)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-some-tell-tale-behaviors-of-a-person-trying-to-score-pseudoephedrine-to-make-meth/503163.md?page=1)