# What are the arguments for and against school vouchers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-school-vouchers/365655 "2006-07-23T00:47:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-school-vouchers/365655/81 "2006-07-29T00:40:50Z")
[QUOTE=RaftPeople] t. My kids have had some great teachers, but unfortunately, they have also had a few teachers that were incredibly, stunningly, bad. Any system where teachers as bad as these ones continue to teach because they can’t be removed (due to teachers union) is a broken system. Maybe vouchers is the wrong answer, but when you have dealt with situations like this personally, vouchers sound appealing. [/QUOTE] How about when the teacher can’t be removed becuase he is a senior member of that churchs clergy? (I went to Catholic school for one semester, even though I wasn’t a catholic. Long story. Anyway, there was a Monsignier (sp?)who was quite senile and deaf but still taught.) Or in a private school where one of the teachers is blowing the principal and he won’t fire her either. See, it isn’t just in a Public school with unions you have incompetance- you have Incompetance everywhere. And Union or no, if you personally run for School board and win, you can get rid of that teacher- perhaps not fire, sure, but at least put in a non-teaching position or given a few dozen transfers and bad write up until they quit. And- how do YOU know that such and such teacher is bad? Do you attend his classes? Maybe it’s your kids or maybe it’s you? ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-school-vouchers/365655/82 "2006-07-29T06:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] And Union or no, if you personally run for School board and win, you can get rid of that teacher- perhaps not fire, sure, but at least put in a non-teaching position or given a few dozen transfers and bad write up until they quit. [/QUOTE] Several flaws in this statement: (1) The school board doesn’t assign or transfer specific teachers. The superintendant and/or principals (depending on the district) handle that. There are certainly school boards that micromanage to this level, but that isn’t their role. (2) An individual school board member can’t fire anyone even without a union. It takes a majority of the school board to take that kind of action. (3) School board members don’t “write up” teachers. Again, the superintendant does that. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-school-vouchers/365655/83 "2006-07-29T07:04:46Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] And- how do YOU know that such and such teacher is bad? [/quote] You ask that question because either: 1. You think I’m not qualified to judge which teachers are good and which teachers are bad 2. You assume I am unable to put aside my biases for my family and evaluate the situation fairly I would answer those as follows: 1. There is an extreme level of incompetence that does not require one to be an expert in education to make a judgement. In some cases, any reasonable rational person can see that there is a problem. 2. You don’t know me, so it’s a fair question. Probably no way I can prove to you that I can put aside my biases, so we’ll have to leave this one alone. Here is my answer to your question: I know because when there are problems I speak with the teacher and I make a judgement based on the information I get from my kids, the teacher and other parents. In addition, I don’t come to that conclusion based on one incident, there needs to be a pattern of behavior. In all of the cases I was referring to, not only was there a pattern, there were numerous other parents with the same concerns. Here is one example: a spanish teacher that does not have the students speak spanish in class. They watch spanish soap operas. That’s right, they watch TV. And please don’t respond by saying “how do you know that isn’t an effective way to learn spanish” because you can’t learn a language without using your brain to form words and sentences. The only person that passed the final test was a friend of ours whose family speaks as much spanish as they do english in the home. In this case a large group of parents were successful in pressuring the principal to get the teacher to re-visit her grading on the final test. > [@](#): > > Do you attend his classes? Generally not allowed, the reason typically given is that it’s disruptive. > [@](#): > > Maybe it’s your kids When my kid and numerous others get A’s and B’s in all classes except for a D in the spanish class where you don’t speak spanish, the logical conclusion is that it is not the student. > [@](#): > > or maybe it’s you? I don’t do the homework, I don’t take the tests and I don’t attend class so I’m not sure how it can be me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-arguments-for-and-against-school-vouchers/365655.md?page=4)