# What are the biggest "fuck yous" from creators to fanbases? (OPEN SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240 "2005-10-28T01:43:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Sir\_Rhosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sir\_Rhosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Rhosis)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/81 "2005-10-29T00:56:14Z")
ENTERPRISE character destiny spoiler. I think the ep in the Mirror Universe where they find the ship from Kirk’s time had a file flash quickly onscreen which showed the history of some of the Enterprise characters. If memory serves, Hoshi Sato will die on Tarsus IV when Kodos The Executioner kills most of the population so the others may live. As you may recall, Jim Kirk, as a young teen was one of the few who lived and remembered what Kodos looked like. TOS ep, “The Conscience of the King.” Sir Rhosis ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/82 "2005-10-29T00:59:21Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > 43 posts and no mention of the infamous “Terrence and Phillip” episode of South Park that aired when fans were expecting the Who is Cartman’s Father episode? That was the last episode of **South Park** that I ever watched. As a matter of fact, I watched ten minutes of it, realized what was up, and turned the TV off. To make matters worse, some friends and I had a little wager going about who Cartman’s father would be. I guessed Ms. Cartman. It was only several years after the fact that I learned, purely by accident, that I had been correct. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/83 "2005-10-29T01:26:44Z")
I know a lot of people who don’t think the Peter Jackson films of _The Lord of the Rings_ are particularly good films or particularly good versions of the book. If you’d like to read an entire book of essays by people arguing this point, read _Tolkien on Film: Essays on Peter Jackson’s The Lord of the Rings_ (Altadena, CA: The Mythopoeic Press, 2004). The general opinion among these people is that removing the Tom Bombadil episode is the least objectionable thing that Jackson did and that skipping the Scouring of the Shire wasn’t that big a deal either. They have other objections to the film that they think are more important. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/84 "2005-10-29T01:41:51Z")
The Spider-Clone Saga. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/85 "2005-10-29T01:44:02Z")
> [@Wendell Wagner](#): > > I know a lot of people who don’t think the Peter Jackson films of _The Lord of the Rings_ are particularly good films or particularly good versions of the book. If you’d like to read an entire book of essays by people arguing this point, read _Tolkien on Film: Essays on Peter Jackson’s The Lord of the Rings_ (Altadena, CA: The Mythopoeic Press, 2004). The general opinion among these people is that removing the Tom Bombadil episode is the least objectionable thing that Jackson did and that skipping the Scouring of the Shire wasn’t that big a deal either. They have other objections to the film that they think are more important. IMHO these people are nitpicking ingrates. NO ONE would EVER have made the movies they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/86 "2005-10-29T01:44:50Z")
> [@Art Vandelay](#): > > The entire “Avengers Dissassembled” storyline seemed to be one big FU to the fans IMO. Okay, the team has a history of abruptly shaking up the roster and featuring totally new characters while downplaying others. But none of the Avengers seemed even remotely in-character, the team sat around doing nothing while non-member Dr. Strange has to step in and save their asses, Hawkeye & Ant-Man’s deaths were gratuitous, and a cornerstone team of the Marvel Universe is ignominously swept away to make way for the ‘new’ Avengers - a shabby JLA facsimile filled with the most overexposed characters in the Marvel Universe and tired “espionage” stories. That smacked me as an enormous FU from the writer. But without this, the Young Avengers title would never have existed, so I can’t say it’s ALL bad. ---
**Author:** ![sleeepy2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@sleeepy2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeepy2)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/87 "2005-10-29T02:01:08Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > The Spider-Clone Saga. The Clone Saga wasn’t an FU, it was a pretty standard Spidey story that got _way_ out of control and dragged on _way_ too long. When it started, he idea that one of the Jackal’s clones had lived was pretty interesting. Eventually it turned into, “Peter is the clone, Ben is real. We swear. No, no, Peter is definitely 100%, no bullshit the clone. We swear. Peter is definitely the clone… Ha! Ben’s the clone, fooled you!” The _real_ FU to the fan was telling us that Gwen Stacy fucked the Green Goblin and got knocked up! Ol’ Petey was getting chaste hugs and kisses, but Norman was gettin’ some stank on his hang-low! Take that, sacred memory of the virginal Saint Gwen! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/88 "2005-10-29T02:05:26Z")
> [@sleeepy2](#): > > The Clone Saga wasn’t an FU, it was a pretty standard Spidey story that got _way_ out of control and dragged on _way_ too long. When it started, he idea that one of the Jackal’s clones had lived was pretty interesting. Eventually it turned into, “Peter is the clone, Ben is real. We swear. No, no, Peter is definitely 100%, no bullshit the clone. We swear. Peter is definitely the clone… Ha! Ben’s the clone, fooled you!” > > The _real_ FU to the fan was telling us that Gwen Stacy fucked the Green Goblin and got knocked up! Ol’ Petey was getting chaste hugs and kisses, but Norman was gettin’ some stank on his hang-low! Take that, sacred memory of the virginal Saint Gwen! Yeah, but the whole Green Goblin “I wasn’t dead, I was in Europe” crap really turned me off to Spider-Man. I haven’t read any Spidey comics since then (I liked the movie well enough, though). ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/89 "2005-10-29T02:24:22Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > I seem to recall that Metaallica got popular due to a liberal policy of allowing taping at early shows. Then they got into this whole Napster nonsense. Ninnies! Especially when they sued 330,000 of their fans for downloading songs…hard to get any more “Fuck You” than that! > [@Euthanasiast](#): > > As prolific as Stephen King is, he is human. It takes a tremendous amount of patience and skill to write a story at all, let alone a colossus like the **Dark Tower Series**. Books are rarely written in a natural way, and ideas do not come to you in even slivers over a set period of time. A great writer of fiction is nothing more than a court reporter, taking it all down as fast as he can when it comes. This is true. However, Stephen King is by no means a great writer. Heck, he’s not even a very good one. His only talent is coming up with intriguing stories, and that well ran dry decades ago. I’ll nominate _The Simpsons_, for how Comic Book Guy became a cariacature of all those loudmouth fans on the Internet who bitch and moan about how terrible the show has become, and declare every new show the “WORST EPISODE EVER!” (Of course, that’s more of a “Shut Up Bitch” and not so much “Fuck You”…) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/90 "2005-10-29T02:32:20Z")
RikWriter writes: \> IMHO these people are nitpicking ingrates. NO ONE would EVER have made the \> movies they wanted. This distorts the views of the people who wrote the essays in that book. They have objections to the films about things that could easily have been done better by better filmmakers than Jackson and his co-writers. Read the book, because I’m not going to argue about it. I’m tired of arguments about the films that consist mostly of people telling me, “It’s intuitively obvious that the films are great and you’ll burn in hell for saying otherwise.” ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/91 "2005-10-29T02:49:13Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > IMHO these people are nitpicking ingrates. NO ONE would EVER have made the movies they wanted. No doubt. I can’t think of a bigger waste of time than to read about the objections of these type of fans. I saw enough of them when the movies were released. I try to avoid fans like this like the plague; I’m not about to search out a book of essays by them. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/92 "2005-10-29T03:35:01Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > This is true. However, Stephen King is by no means a great writer. Heck, he’s not even a very good one. His only talent is coming up with intriguing stories, and that well ran dry decades ago. I don’t think you’ve read much Stephen King. King’s power is in his character development, and he is unparalleled in this category. His stories really aren’t that intriguing, and never really have been very original. It’s not the way that he writes about horror, it’s the way he writes about the mundane that makes him a great writer. If you can read The Stand or The Shining and come away from that thinking that the author was producing less than world class story-telling, then I just got to see what you call ‘great writing’. There is a reason that he is one of the most successful writers of the 20th century. You don’t have more than 300 million copies of your fiction published when you are ‘not a very good’ writer. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/93 "2005-10-29T03:45:53Z")
> [@Menocchio](#): > > One of their main points of evidence is that the two took a ride together on Buckbeak the hippogriff, which symbolizes their love somehow (despite the fact that Hermione didn’t enjoy it at all and both had more pressing concerns than romance). Clearly, then, it symbolises their first sexual experience! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/94 "2005-10-29T03:49:15Z")
> [@TJVM](#): > > As I read it, I felt like I could hear Thomas Harris saying, “Oh, you want another Hannibal book? Okay, here’s your Hannibal book, _right here!_” This phenomenon is the best explanation I can think of for _The Dark Knight Strikes Again_. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/95 "2005-10-29T03:50:19Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > If you can read The Stand or The Shining and come away from that thinking that the author was producing less than world class story-telling, then I just got to see what you call ‘great writing’. /me raises hand. I think King is a third-rate hack on a good day. You want horror and mundane? Start with James P. Blaylock. > [@](#): > > There is a reason that he is one of the most successful writers of the 20th century. You don’t have more than 300 million copies of your fiction published when you are ‘not a very good’ writer. Do tell. Are you perchance familiar with Robert W. Chambers? If so, for which book? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/96 "2005-10-29T03:50:52Z")
On Spidey. Ever want to know the whole story behind the Clone Saga? > **[Yoga Burn & Fitness Recipes - Comical Yoga Reviews on Healthy Living](http://www.newcomicreviews.com)** > > Welcome to our Yoga and fitness blog, where we review our favorite exercises, recipes and put a comical touch on everything. This is worth reading. It blew my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/97 "2005-10-29T04:22:18Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > /me raises hand. I think King is a third-rate hack on a good day. You want horror and mundane? Start with James P. Blaylock. I read **The Rainy Season** & **In For a Penny**. Admittedly good, but I don’t see any reason for King to quake in his boots. Any other recommendations? > [@](#): > > Do tell. Are you perchance familiar with Robert W. Chambers? If so, for which book? No, and I think I’m missing your meaning. Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/98 "2005-10-29T04:32:45Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > I don’t think you’ve read much Stephen King. Oh yes, I have…up until his writing started to _really_ suck, that is. 😉 My favorite novels of all time include _The Stand_, and _The Talisman_. I’ve also taken several college classes which study his work in depth. King describes himself “the equivalent of a Big Mac and Fries at McDonalds,” which nails his writing style perfectly. > [@](#): > > King’s power is in his character development, and he is unparalleled in this category. His stories really aren’t that intriguing, and never really have been very original. It’s not the way that he writes about horror, it’s the way he writes about the mundane that makes him a great writer. If you can read The Stand or The Shining and come away from that thinking that the author was producing less than world class story-telling, then I just got to see what you call ‘great writing’. I absolutely agree about the world-class storytelling and the powerful character development. But “great writing” is more than just that. Allegory, symbolism, metaphor, onomatopoeia…basically, just the way words are hooked up with each other. It’s really a matter of semantics, but I’ve always distinguished “writing” and “storytelling” as two separate things. Therefore, I see King as an awesome storyteller, but only an average writer. (Whereas other famous authors are great writers, but not so great storytellers…like Leo Tolstoy…or even Tolkien, one could argue.) However, right around _Misery_ or shortly thereafter, King ran out of ideas. His storytelling in recent works lacks passion, and his characters are merely retreads of earlier ideas. Plus, his writing style just sounds _tired_…like he’s going through the motions, just to pay the bills. (Or keep up with the voices in his head, whatever.) It’s like he doesn’t care about his stories anymore, let alone the fans who read them. Occasionally he’ll type out something that’s worth reading (“The Langoliers”, and some parts of _Hearts in Atlantis_) but as for the rest, I get more enjoyment out of admiring my morning stool. > [@](#): > > There is a reason that he is one of the most successful writers of the 20th century. You don’t have more than 300 million copies of your fiction published when you are ‘not a very good’ writer. The only reason SK is so popular, is because he struck a chord. People in the 70’s were primed and ready for escapist horror fiction, what with the natural horrors of corrupt politicians, gas shortages, and possible nuclear war. Anyone could have filled that niche, and SK was just the first one to come along. It’s like how Tom Clancy (neither a great writer OR storyteller, IMHO) came along when people wanted highly technical spy/war novels, and J.K. Rowling slipped into the “school for wizard kids” category. And if you really believe # of millions sold must mean the person’s a great writer…well, read any Danielle Steel lately? ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/99 "2005-10-29T04:48:54Z")
> [@Euthanasiast](#): > > Any other recommendations? Here’s a few other horror-ish writers whom I prefer to King. De gustibus etc.–my tastes tend to run to pulp fiction and lit-snob fantasy. Blaylock (as already mentioned) Tim Powers Richard Paul Russo David Drake Fredric Brown GRRM REH HPL CAS Dunsany (the best fantasy writer ever) Algernon Blackwood (the best horror writer ever) William Hope Hodgson Ted Sturgeon Francis Stevens Arthur Machen Fritz Leiber Jeffrey Ford Arthur Conan Doyle James Branch Cabell John Collier Regarding Chambers: He was astonishingly popular in his day–for writing crappy romance novels, of all things. Today, he’s remembered for one book: _The King in Yellow_, which is today regarded as one of the all-time classics of weird fiction, but which in the day wasn’t all that popular. The point is that popularity is not necessarily correlated with quality, and arguably is actually inversely correlated (this is verging into GD territory, though). For example, nobody would argue that McDonalds serves a helluva lot of hamburgers, but I don’t know too many people who would argue that McDonalds serves _really great_ hamburgers. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240/100 "2005-10-29T05:11:07Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > And if you really believe # of millions sold must mean the person’s a great writer…well, read any Danielle Steel lately? touché [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-biggest-fuck-yous-from-creators-to-fanbases-open-spoilers/328240.md?page=6)