# What are the boundaries of the crime of solicitation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059 "2018-04-24T19:51:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/1 "2018-04-24T19:51:38Z")
I understand that in the United States there will be 52 different answers and that there are many nuances, but I am trying to wrap my head around it. Several principles come to mind (and correct me if I am wrong about this): 1. The words must be of a nature that would naturally induce a person to commit the crime solicited. A simple request is not sufficient. 2. The person solicited must not already be predisposed to commit the crime. If I suggest to my pothead buddy that we smoke marijuana, I did not solicit him because he is ready to smoke weed every waking moment. 3. The mere acquiescence to commit a crime is not solicitation. If you ask me to kill your wife for $10k, and I say “Okay” then I am not guilty of solicitation (or any crime in a jurisdiction where a conspiracy requires an overt act). So, given these principles, what about this scenario: Dave: I will kill your wife for $25k. Jim: $25k is a lot of money. Dave: But you really want her dead, don’t you? Jim: Yes I do. Dave: Well, then I can do it for $15k, but not a penny less. Jim: How about $10k? Dave: Deal. In the above scenario, Dave certainly solicited Jim. But does Jim’s counter-offer act as a solicitation of Dave as well? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/2 "2018-04-24T21:36:10Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > … > Dave: I will kill your wife for $25k. > Jim: $25k is a lot of money. > Dave: But you really want her dead, don’t you? > Jim: Yes I do. > Dave: Well, then I can do it for $15k, but not a penny less. > Jim: How about $10k? > Dave: Deal. Wasn’t this a Pawn Stars episode? mmm ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/3 "2018-04-25T21:21:27Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Wasn’t this a Pawn Stars episode? > mmm Only if said murder was committed with an authentic Civil War gun owned by Thomas Jefferson. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/4 "2018-04-26T16:26:52Z")
I remember an episode of cops where the vice squad was doing a sting and they arrested a guy for merely asking the undercover cop prostitute how much a blow job costs. Said that was solicitation. Now whether that holds up in court or not, I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/5 "2018-04-26T16:55:23Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > I remember an episode of cops where the vice squad was doing a sting and they arrested a guy for merely asking the undercover cop prostitute how much a blow job costs. Said that was solicitation. Now whether that holds up in court or not, I can’t say. This type of thing can be a big deal. Suppose you get approached by some “prostitute” and you have no intention of using her services (and may even suspect that she’s an undercover cop). So you don’t make up to pay her anything let alone go further, but think it might be a interesting experience to drag things about a bit with discussions of this sort. Next thing you know you’re under arrest. For middle class people with families and jobs, being arrested for soliciting can be a devastating and humiliating experience even if you eventually beat the rap in court. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/6 "2018-04-26T18:15:21Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > I remember an episode of cops where the vice squad was doing a sting and they arrested a guy for merely asking the undercover cop prostitute how much a blow job costs. Said that was solicitation. Now whether that holds up in court or not, I can’t say. Punch line: “We already know what you are. Now we’re just dickering.” > [@](#): > > So, given these principles, what about this scenario: > > Dave: I will kill your wife for $25k. > Jim: $25k is a lot of money. > Dave: But you really want her dead, don’t you? > Jim: Yes I do. > Dave: Well, then I can do it for $15k, but not a penny less. > Jim: How about $10k? > Dave: Deal. > > In the above scenario, Dave certainly solicited Jim. But does Jim’s counter-offer act as a solicitation of Dave as well? IANAL, but I don’t think Jim is guilty of solicitation. Probably more like criminal conspiracy. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/7 "2018-04-26T18:59:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Punch line: “We already know what you are. Now we’re just dickering.” > IANAL, but I don’t think Jim is guilty of solicitation. Probably more like criminal conspiracy. > > Regards, > Shodan I thought of that, but in my state conspiracy requires an overt act by one of the parties. Let’s assume that the above mentioned “negotiation” is made with the intent that Dave kill Jim’s wife. Paging one of the criminal lawyers on the board: Is a counter-offer also a solicitation? Can both parties to an incomplete conspiracy be guilty of soliciting each other? I would argue as Shodan does that Jim has merely acquiesced to Dave’s solicitation and is quibbling about the details. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/8 "2018-04-26T19:03:32Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > I thought of that, but in my state conspiracy requires an overt act by one of the parties. Let’s assume that the above mentioned “negotiation” is made with the intent that Dave kill Jim’s wife. > > Paging one of the criminal lawyers on the board: Is a counter-offer also a solicitation? Can both parties to an incomplete conspiracy be guilty of soliciting each other? I would argue as Shodan does that Jim has merely acquiesced to Dave’s solicitation and is quibbling about the details. In Washington, the guy who offers the money is guilty. (in this case, Jim) > [@](#): > > RCW 9a.28.030 > Criminal solicitation. > (1) A person is guilty of criminal solicitation when, with intent to promote or facilitate the commission of a crime, he or she offers to give or gives money or other thing of value to another to engage in specific conduct which would constitute such crime or which would establish complicity of such other person in its commission or attempted commission had such crime been attempted or committed. > (2) Criminal solicitation shall be punished in the same manner as criminal attempt under RCW 9A.28.020. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/9 "2018-04-26T19:04:38Z")
ISTM that this > [@](#): > > 1. The person solicited must not already be predisposed to commit the crime. shows that Dave is predisposed to commit the crime - he offered first. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/10 "2018-04-26T19:17:06Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > In Washington, the guy who offers the money is guilty. (in this case, Jim) But Dave offered the killing in exchange for money. If Jim had simply said “yes” to the original price, there would be no crime. Since he pays less, is society served by putting him in jail? Is it in society’s interests that a hit man’s initial offer is accepted and that his earnings are maximized? Does haggling=solicitation when the intent has been formed in Dave’s mind, but they are just quibbling over the specific type of inducement offered? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-boundaries-of-the-crime-of-solicitation/813059/11 "2018-04-26T19:28:06Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > But Dave offered the killing in exchange for money. If Jim had simply said “yes” to the original price, there would be no crime. Since he pays less, is society served by putting him in jail? Is it in society’s interests that a hit man’s initial offer is accepted and that his earnings are maximized? > > Does haggling=solicitation when the intent has been formed in Dave’s mind, but they are just quibbling over the specific type of inducement offered? It may very well be a crime, but (in Washington, at least) it’s not the crime of solicitation.