# What are the CIA's top 3 historical successes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587 "2009-05-06T20:59:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/21 "2009-05-07T13:21:47Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > I don’t find either of these statements supported by the facts. > I cannot find any reference to the CIA ordering an airstrike in Belgrade as alleged by the OP. Certainly the information used by DMA (now NGA) to produce the maps used in the mission was provided by the CIA. But I don’t see anywhere in the cite where the CIA says they had anything to do with the strike itself. Huh? The CIA are an intelligence-gathering body. If they provide poor intelligence, that constitutes a failure. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/22 "2009-05-07T17:40:53Z")
Brought peace? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/23 "2009-05-07T17:56:41Z")
> [@Altair33](#): > > I’m not a CIA basher per se, since I assume most of them are patriotic guys who try hard. I just can’t really recall them doing anything positive in my lifetime. I do recall them ordering the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade during the Serbian campaign, and they took out a pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan. Both were horrible mistakes. They swung and missed on WMDs in Iraq, haven’t found bin Laden, didn’t let us know about 9-11 beforehand, and they didn’t come close to predicting the fall of the Soviet Union. > > What exactly has the CIA done in its history that is positive? I am not convinced that the pharmaceutical plant in the Sudan was a horrible mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/24 "2009-05-07T17:57:35Z")
> [@scm1001](#): > > … the CIA never > > 1. predicted any major world event before it happened (information was supposed to be their main raison d’etre) … One major event that caught the CIA by surprise was the collapse of the Soviet Union. You’d think that, since the Soviet Union was the no. 1 enemy of the US during the Cold War, they’d be keeping their fingers on the pulse there. But they seemed to have no idea that, after an attempted coup, there would not just be a change of government: the largest country in the world (by area) would simply cease to exist as a functioning country in the course of a few days in 1991. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/25 "2009-05-08T04:22:04Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I am of the firm opinion that Legacy of Ashes is disinformation. True, but omitting significant detail and events. I _know_ I ran into at least three historical points where I went ‘Waaait. They just didn’t _mention_ something there.’ I don’t remember what they were, sadly, but I know that book left serious amounts of stuff unsaid. [https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol51no3/legacy-of-ashes-the-history-of-cia.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol51no3/legacy-of-ashes-the-history-of-cia.html) agrees with you. This may well be right, I have little way of telling. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/26 "2009-05-08T17:37:54Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > Probably lots of things that will never be known to the public precisely because they were successful, and they want to be able to repeat those successes. Think about it. +1 The reason why we all can go home tonight watch TV, play on the internet, and enjoy our happy homes is testament to thousands of CIA successes that we will never know about.. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/27 "2009-05-08T17:44:21Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > +1 The reason why we all can go home tonight watch TV, play on the internet, and enjoy our happy homes is testament to thousands of CIA successes that we will never know about.. So how do you know they happened? I think the CIA often gets an unfair rap, but crediting the agency with thousands of successes that nobody knows anything about, without which we would not be as safe as we are today, is like crediting the Flying Spaghetti Monster with keeping invisible space aliens away from our feeble planet. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/28 "2009-05-08T17:45:23Z")
> [@Altair33](#): > > The CIA itself admitted it screwed up by ordering the Belgrade bombing The CIA has no authority to order a bombing, the military is in an entirely separate chain of command. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/29 "2009-05-08T18:00:38Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > You’ll need to give a couple of cites for “leakers all over the CIA”. I do not remember the CIA leaking anything. Valerie Plame was exposed by the civilian government. CIA torture practices were exposed by Obama releasing the memos. When did people from within the CIA ever leak out a failure? \*\*Ex-\*\*agents sometimes do. E.g., [Ralph McGehee.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_McGehee) I heard him speak at a college event once, making the point that in his experience the CIA’s actual mission was not intelligence-gathering but supporting the foreign policy of the current administration. During the Vietnam War he was in an operation in Thailand, rooting out Communist cells in rural villages, and he managed to get a lot of Commies to break down and confess, and then the plug was pulled on the operation – because the offical line at the moment was that there **were** no Communists to speak of in Thailand, it was a hopeless fringe movement. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/30 "2009-05-08T18:01:54Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > The CIA has no authority to order a bombing, the military is in an entirely separate chain of command. Yeah, right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/31 "2009-05-08T18:07:53Z")
It is true. The military chain of command ultimately runs from the president, through the Secretary of Defense, and down the line. The CIA doesn’t report to the Secretary of Defense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/32 "2009-05-08T18:22:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > It is true. The military chain of command ultimately runs from the president, through the Secretary of Defense, and down the line. The CIA doesn’t report to the Secretary of Defense. Yes, I know the CIA doesn’t have the **authority** to order a bombing. That does not mean it doesn’t have the **power.** ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/33 "2009-05-08T18:30:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Yes, I know the CIA doesn’t have the **authority** to order a bombing. That does not mean it doesn’t have the **power.** Then why did you eyeroll a statement saying the CIA didn’t have the **authority**? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/34 "2009-05-08T18:53:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Then why did you eyeroll a statement saying the CIA didn’t have the **authority**? Because the authority question is irrelevant to **Altair33’s** assertion in post #10. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/35 "2009-05-08T18:59:50Z")
Since it is not possible prove a negative - is it not possible that their sucesses will never be known, since they prevented something from happening ? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/36 "2009-05-08T19:45:22Z")
There’s a very real argument to be made for the concept of _Pax Americana_, for which the CIA is at least partially responsible. As for myself, the [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/) is one of their major achievements. Encyclopedic style and up-to-date summaries of every modern nation. I found it invaluable for studying foreign relations and understanding politics. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/37 "2009-05-09T12:02:28Z")
^ And often dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/38 "2009-05-09T13:02:31Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > ^ > And often dead wrong. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/39 "2009-05-09T14:20:38Z")
I would imagine the Glomar Explorer with Howard Hughes was pretty good. There are many I would have no clue about. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587/40 "2009-05-09T15:18:37Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > Since it is not possible prove a negative - is it not possible that their sucesses will never be known, since they prevented something from happening ? This is the sort of comment that indicates a completely misguided impression of what the CIA does, or is even chartered to do. By watching movies and the televisor you’d probably come to the conclusion that the primary mission of the CIA is to infiltrate terrorist cells and kill the leader just as he’s on the cusp of unleashing an attack, kill KGB snipers before they assassinate the President, or track jet-setting villains across three continents, enter their underground lairs, and activate the auto-destruct device to foil their plans. Something vaguely resembling the Hollywood view might occur once in a blue moon, but the original charter of the CIA was to fight Communism by a) collecting intelligence information, b) train and equip insurgents, and c) directly or indirectly support regime changes to governments unfriendly to the spread of Communism. Since Communism went belly up the CIA has been at somewhat loose ends in defining a new mission in life, but while the Agency does maintain some paramilitary capability (albeit greatly scaled down after the Church Committee hearings and USSCI) its primary function is not direct intervention but the collection, interpretation, and dissemination of data to the relevant parties, i.e. the DoD, DoE, FBI, et cetera. In this regard the CIA has been notoriously remiss in having assets on the ground to collect data, correctly interpreting what data they receive, and effectively communicating the data to anyone else. > [@Tristan](#): > > > [@AK84](#): > > > > > [@Mtgman](#): > > > > > > There’s a very real argument to be made for the concept of _Pax Americana_, for which the CIA is at least partially responsible. As for myself, the [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/) is one of their major achievements. Encyclopedic style and up-to-date summaries of every modern nation. I found it invaluable for studying foreign relations and understanding politics. > > > > And often dead wrong. > > How so? The data has often been a pastiche of expert opinion, guesswork, public sources, and suitably declassified intelligence. Although there have been notable errors, I don’t find it to be any worse than other factbooks like those from Jane’s Information Group (from which it often draws heavily). Of course, pointing to the _Factbook_ as one of the CIA’s main achievements brings the question of why it is funded to the tune of several billions of dollars a year to essentially provide the same service as a political think tank and boutique publishing house. > [@Cicero](#): > > I would imagine the Glomar Explorer with Howard Hughes was pretty good. There are many I would have no clue about. Um, have you actually read up on Project Jennifer? Because several hundred million dollars were expended in order to pull part of an obsolete Soviet submarine off the ocean floor, significantly damaging the vessel in the process, and recovering little of any practical value. It would have been more productive to use the _Glomar Explorer_ to actually collect manganese modules from the ocean floor instead of using that as the cover story. I’m just waiting for someone to mention Operation Gold. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-cias-top-3-historical-successes/495587.md?page=3)