# What Are The Greatest Scientific Discoveries Learned From the Soviet/Russian Space Program **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071 "2016-07-27T23:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SHARKBITEATTACK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@SHARKBITEATTACK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SHARKBITEATTACK)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/1 "2016-07-27T23:34:23Z")
What are some of the greatest discoveries that the world learned from the Soviet and subsequent Russian Space program? The easy ones are “the firsts” things like proving dogs and then humans could orbit the earth and return safely. Did we learn anything major from any of their unmanned missions, such as probes that were sent out to other planets? Other discoveries from expirements on MIR? Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/2 "2016-07-28T00:47:10Z")
The Soviets had the [Venus probe missions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera) (the Venera’s). One of those missions was able to conclude/prove plate-tectonics upon another planet. That was a first, I believe. Plenty of sciencey stuff was discovered about Venus from all the Venera missions. The Soviets were also the first to return samples from the Moon via the[Luna missions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_programme) (robotic ‘landers’). Prior to that, they got the first close-up images of the lunar surface. Of course, that has all been surpassed, by far. But for the times, they were pretty good and persistent at what at they were trying to do, IMHO, until Cold War stuff/politics began costing them too much to progress as fast as the US/others. Judgement call on what was the \*greatest \*result, I guess. I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I recall myself. I don’t know if the development of the still-in-use and rather dependable Soyuz really counts as a “discovery” (maybe in the specific engineering thereof?), but its a heck of an old(er) workhorse as far I am concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/3 "2016-07-28T01:58:22Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > The Soviets were also the first to return samples from the Moon via the[Luna missions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_programme) (robotic ‘landers’). Prior to that, they got the first close-up images of the lunar surface. > > Of course, that has all been surpassed, by far. But for the times, they were pretty good and persistent at what at they were trying to do, IMHO, until Cold War stuff/politics began costing them too much to progress as fast as the US/others. Judgement call on what was the \*greatest \*result, I guess. I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I recall myself. I don’t know if the development of the still-in-use and rather dependable Soyuz really counts as a “discovery” (maybe in the specific engineering thereof?), but its a heck of an old(er) workhorse as far I am concerned. To be clear, they were the first to return lunar soil _via a robotic probe._ Apollo 11 was still the first to return any lunar material period. In fact Armstrong had a small bag on his leg and the very first thing he was to do upon walking on the surface (after _“…a giant leap”_) was scoop up some dirt and fill it. It was referred to as the ‘contingency sample’, meaning in case the LM started falling over or their suits failed etc. they were to be absolutely sure to get at least some soil for return. I would agree that the most important thing the Soviet/Russian Space Program showed is that once you have a reliable booster, stick with it\*!\* The Space Shuttle was the biggest, costliest (in money and lives) blunder in space history. There is no reason we shouldn’t, to this day, still be using the Saturn V/1B for heavy & medium lift LEO manned & unmanned missions. It would have been safer and cheaper (_ **much** _ safer & cheaper) than the Shuttle ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/4 "2016-07-28T02:07:27Z")
Use a pencil. Ok, it’s an urban legend, but the real story of the space pen is somewhat interesting: > **[NASA's 'Astronaut Pen'](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-write-stuff/)** > > Space race legend claims NASA spent millions of dollars developing an 'astronaut pen' that would work in outer space, while the Soviets solved the same problem by simply using pencils. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/5 "2016-07-28T03:54:11Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > The Soviets had the [Venus probe missions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera) (the Venera’s) … [snip] Nice call … the USA has never landed a probe on the surface of Venus … the Russians landed 8. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/6 "2016-07-28T04:18:27Z")
They were the first to obtain images of the [far side of the moon](http://www.universetoday.com/105326/oct-7-1959-our-first-look-at-the-far-side-of-the-moon/). I remember, at the time, how freaky it felt to see the side of the moon that no earth creature had ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/7 "2016-07-28T07:05:10Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > To be clear, they were the first to return lunar soil _via a robotic probe._ Very true, and my bad. I was watching \*Little Big Man \*(one of my favorite movies) while typing at same time and criss-crossed my thoughts. Thx for correcting me/that 🙂 A tangent question about the far-side images: Didn’t the Soviets withold those images until after the USA had their own, or had put US footprints upom the Moon? Or was it some other specific data/subject of “great discovery”? IIRC, there was some great Soviet stuff (not meaning eqpt-specs or such) they witheld to themselves for a period of time due to their politiking or whatever and just curious if this part of it…not wanting to derail, though. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/8 "2016-07-28T13:33:25Z")
I believe that their long-term space station and the long-term stays in orbit by a number of their astronauts provided a wealth of biomedical information about the effects of gravity (or lack thereof) on the human body. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/9 "2016-07-28T14:02:18Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > A tangent question about the far-side images: Didn’t the Soviets withold those images until after the USA had their own, or had put US footprints upom the Moon? Or was it some other specific data/subject of “great discovery”? IIRC, there was some great Soviet stuff (not meaning eqpt-specs or such) they witheld to themselves for a period of time due to their politiking or whatever and just curious if this part of it…not wanting to derail, though. Six of the Lunik 3 [farside images](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luna_3#/media/File:Luna_3_moon.jpg) were publicized [contemporarily](http://www.svengrahn.pp.se/trackind/luna3/DN27oct59.jpg). Mind you they were not particularly good images – basically they took film photographs that were processed inside the probe then a TV image of the processed photograph transmitted down. ---
**Author:** ![Pixel\_Dent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Pixel\_Dent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixel_Dent)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/10 "2016-07-28T14:09:22Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I would agree that the most important thing the Soviet/Russian Space Program showed is that once you have a reliable booster, stick with it\*!\* The Space Shuttle was the biggest, costliest (in money and lives) blunder in space history. There is no reason we shouldn’t, to this day, still be using the Saturn V/1B for heavy & medium lift LEO manned & unmanned missions. It would have been safer and cheaper (_ **much** _ safer & cheaper) than the Shuttle ever was. While I don’t argue with the conclusion, don’t you think that’s more of an engineering “discovery” rather than a scientific one as per the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/11 "2016-07-28T21:06:36Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > The Soviets had the [Venus probe missions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera) (the Venera’s). > > One of those missions was able to conclude/prove plate-tectonics upon another planet. . Huh? Venus does not have plate tectonics, as far as we know. Perhaps someone thought it did back then. ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/12 "2016-07-28T21:39:14Z")
> [@Pixel\_Dent](#): > > While I don’t argue with the conclusion, don’t you think that’s more of an engineering “discovery” rather than a scientific one as per the thread title? I guess I fought my ignorance in mentioning the Soyuz. According to[Boston University College of Engineering](http://www.bu.edu/eng/about-us/dean/bio/essays/not_science.shtml), engineering is not science, per se, nor a subset of science. I’d say it might be arguable at certain levels (IANAEng and IANASci) but there it is - a credible cite regarding the subject of engineering -v- science and thread’s subject/title. Perhaps (probably??) some science itself was involved in some concepts/ideas used in R & D of the Soyuz itself, overall, in regards to the OP’s title of “What are the greatest scientific…”, but that, to me, might be a debate of opinions of degrees of greatness rather than a subject pertaining to this GQ-located\* thread. And to **JRDelirious -** thx for that info! - IMHO anyways - which seems to be where this thread should be anyways now that I am over-thinking it… Not gonna report thread for forum change, though. I could be wrong and don’t want to muddle/derail with the aspect of certain discoveries being greater than others - seems fine right here already (shrug) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/13 "2016-07-28T21:55:51Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Huh? Venus does not have plate tectonics, as far as we know. Perhaps someone thought it did back then. Good catch - I should have said just “tectonics”, as stated in the link; not _plate_ tectonics. My bad with the terms being so commonly used together re: Earth. Mea culpa, etc… Thx for the correction! From the wiki article’s Scientific Findings section (w/ the cite listed that info based upon): > [@](#): > > For example, after analyzing the radar images returned from Venera 15 and 16, it was concluded that the ridges and grooves on the surface of Venus were the result of [tectonic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tectonics) deformations.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venera#cite_note-4) ---
**Author:** ![SHARKBITEATTACK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@SHARKBITEATTACK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SHARKBITEATTACK)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/14 "2016-07-29T00:30:27Z")
Good contributions @Ionizer. Although I wouldn’t consider the success of the Soyuz a scientific discovery in the same manner as one based upon a mission or series of missions. For example, through the Apollo landings we discovered what the composition of the moon was from samples brought back to earth. I actually started another thread a couple years back about why the shuttle was retired without an immediate successor. [Why was the space shuttle retired without an immediate successor? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=699487) I really admire the shuttle but IMO it was just wayyy overcomplicated to be cost effective and safe. It was hardly reusable when you consider all the work that had to be done in-between flights The Soviets shuttle and Energia heavy rocket system was a marvel of engineering as well. I would have loved if the program continued for a few more years so that they were able to actually “shuttle” cosmonauts to MIR. Then again maybe it’s better they cut their (financial) losses when they did. Guess we’ll never know… Anyhow keep the discussion going folks! There’s no right or wrong answers here. Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/15 "2016-07-29T02:07:34Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > engineering is not science, per se, nor a subset of science. The hell it isn’t. I recall watching my professors in graduate school working on a problem medical scientists had asked them to measure aerosols. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/16 "2016-07-29T02:12:54Z")
Probably the biggest one was one we could have learned but didn’t until our own fatal accident. I’m speaking of course of [the flammability of material in low pressure pure oxygen along with the issue of escape given the large pressure differential caused by a fire under those circumstances.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Bondarenko) ---
**Author:** ![Ionizer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5daacb/32.png) [@Ionizer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ionizer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/17 "2016-07-29T04:15:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The hell it isn’t. I recall watching my professors in graduate school working on a problem medical scientists had asked them to measure aerosols. So scientists asked engineers to make measurements for them? Is that what you are saying? Sounds like two separate disciplines working there (to me). I cited a College of Engineering stating otherwise. [Plz fight my ignorance](https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=is+engineering+a+science)…plenty of Google hits state it is _not_ a science in and of itself. A great meaningful quote from [here](http://chemistry.about.com/od/educationemployment/fl/Engineer-vs-Scientist-Whats-the-Difference.htm): > [@](#): > > Scientists are the ones who create the theories, engineers are the ones who implement them. I admit that site is not very authoritative, but that statement seems spot-on, right? [See here](http://spectrum.ieee.org/at-work/tech-careers/engineering-is-not-science), too. When the Institue for Electrical and Electronic Engineers says its not, I’ll believe them: > [@](#): > > Science is about understanding the origins, nature, and behavior of the universe and all it contains; engineering is about solving problems by rearranging the stuff of the world to make new things. Since this is kinda derailing, I’ll go no further on this myself since IANAS and IANAE. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/18 "2016-07-29T04:47:32Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Probably the biggest one was one we could have learned but didn’t until our own fatal accident. I’m speaking of course of [the flammability of material in low pressure pure oxygen along with the issue of escape given the large pressure differential caused by a fire under those circumstances.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Bondarenko) I understand hindsight is 20/20, but…shouldn’t this hazard have been obvious? ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/19 "2016-07-29T05:01:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I understand hindsight is 20/20, but…shouldn’t this hazard have been obvious? Not really. During flight, the partial pressure of oxygen would have been similar to that of the earth’s atmosphere. It’s reasonable to think that any material that isn’t a huge fire risk on the ground would be OK to use in a low-pressure pure-oxygen environment. NASA got away with the same system for all Mercury and Gemini flights, and the risk was not fully understood until the Apollo 1 accident. ---
**Author:** ![GWF\_Hefel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@GWF\_Hefel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GWF_Hefel)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2016, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071/20 "2016-07-29T09:28:31Z")
In terms of applied science, I think their most notable contribution was Luna 9 discovering the Moon was not covered in meters of dust. It sounds silly now but this was a concern back then. In terms of pure science, I think they missed out on an obvious and important scientific discovery: the Van Allen radiation belt. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-greatest-scientific-discoveries-learned-from-the-soviet-russian-space-program/761071.md?page=2)