# What are the laws on purchasing illegal items? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 14, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597 "2017-05-14T16:41:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/21 "2017-05-15T04:05:11Z")
> [@sbunny8](#): > > Generally speaking, a contract is not legally binding if it obviously requires breaking the law. > > Case in point, consider [Dickerson v. Deno](http://caselaw.findlaw.com/al-supreme-court/1116773.html). A group of coworkers in Alabama made a verbal contract to pool their money, buy lottery tickets across the state line in Florida, and split the money if they won. One of them took the money to Florida, bought tickets, won several million, and refused to share it with the coworkers, denying that the verbal contract existed. It went to court and the plaintiffs managed to convince the judge that the contract did in fact exist but it was finally ruled that the contract wasn’t legally binding because the contract was made in the state of Alabama, where gambling was illegal. > > For another example, a contractor in Portland Oregon built a million-dollar-plus warehouse and the customer refused to pay the bill. They went to court and the customer’s lawyers successfully argued that the contract was unenforceable because the contractor did not have a valid contractor’s license at the time (which is required in the state of Oregon) therefore the contract was not legally binding. Essentially, the contractor was selling something (their own labor) which they could not legally sell because there was a law which specifically prohibited it. I learned about this case from the Oregon CCB (Construction Contractors Board) when I took a seminar from them about contract law. > > OTOH, if one party of a contract breaks the law while holding up their end of the bargain, that fact alone doesn’t invalidate the contract. Suppose Achmed pays Bianca $300 to deliver a package from Seattle to San Francisco (800 miles away) on the condition that the package must arrive in less than ten hours. Achmed can’t refuse to pay Bianca just because she drove 80+ mph to get there and broke the speed limit, unless the contract required her to do so. She could have taken an airplane and fulfilled the contract without breaking any laws. > > Bottom line, a contract (whether verbal or written\*) is not valid if it requires one or both parties to do something illegal, such as fencing stolen goods. > > IANAL > > \*There is a third type: an implied contract. When you order food in a restaurant, everyone knows that you are promising to pay for it afterwards. That’s an implied contract. This is what a lawyer acquaintance of mine told me once about these hypothetical situations. The usual legal recourse if someone fails to follow through on a contract (verbal or paper) is to sue for redress. The court will not enforce an illegal contract - whether it’s lottery tickets or narcotics or sharing proceeds from a robbery, doesn’t matter. If you and Fred agree to do something against the law, the courts aren’t going to help you collect from Fred if he stiffs you on the payment or takes your goods. Of course, that does not address possession, theft, or criminal conspiracy charges - which may or may not require different levels of proof and may result against one side or both. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/22 "2017-05-15T04:18:54Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I’ve heard of it from movies, and there was a post on this forum about some OP’s wife being indebted to a drug dealer. A drug dealer lending money to a long-time client who’s identity he knows is not remotely like your fantasy of an 'illicit goods dealer" who has a big shop where people can walk through, grab stuff, and pay later. People who deal drugs routinely use violence and the threat of violence to protect themselves and collect money, even though it’s illegal. It is really rare for them to go ‘OMG that is illegal, I have to stop’. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/23 "2017-05-15T06:09:16Z")
My only experience with drugs was a bit of experimenting in high school, but the kids in my church were much more into it, including one guy “Fred” who was a small time dealer. Fred shared an apartment with several guys including a mutual friend “Sam” who never did drugs. Some people broke in and held them at gun point while searching for their drugs. Fortunately no one was hurt, but Fred and the others wouldn’t let Sam call the police, for obvious reasons. Needless to say Fred decided to find a new place. I’m listening to a podcast _Crimetown_ now about organized crime in Providence, RI with the Patriarca crime family. This is exactly how organized crime flourishes. The police can’t help the small time crook, so the local organized crime takes over and settles things. This happens a lot in Japan, where official rules prohibit things such as unauthorized gambling. The authorities close their eyes and allow the yakuza to “police” these things, which keeps it from becoming that much more of a mess. If you try to steal from too many dealers, someone who is ruthless will find a way to ensure you don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/24 "2017-05-15T07:19:23Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > But isn’t sending some guys around to forcible take the products a bit risky? Sure. Most things about dealing illegal times is risky though. Argument invalid. > [@](#): > > What if the thief just shoots the guys for trespassing, or the police come and arrest them? > > What if the thief isn’t at his home, or is at work in a large building, or has already consumed all of the products or sold them off? What if he has moved country, or gone somewhere very remote and isolated? What if the thief is actually Doctor Who and just travels somewhere else in the universe? Try thinking about this a little further than just listing up any question that pops up in your brain. None of these hypotheticals represent realistic insurmountable difficulties. > [@](#): > > Or how about his own ship? He could just sail around the world in a small yacht, occasionally launching a small inflatable boat to go to the mainland and rob a items dealer, then RTB and sail away. You wouldn’t need a massive multi-million dollar yacht to do this, you could buy some sort of old freight ship or something. So now we’ve moved from just a random customer ripping you off to a rival criminal syndicate going to war against you? Or are you suggesting someone buy a freight ship to get “free” weed for personal use? Freight ships need to go to port for supplies and are occasionally searched by customs, especially if they don’t have a reasonable explanation for their presence. > [@](#): > > What if the thief just bought one of those boats, then got a few inflatable boats and just parked the cargo ship near a city, piloted his inflatable boat to the shore, got out and went to the dealer’s location, stole everything, then went back to the cargo ship, loaded it up and sailed away to sell it off? If was very wealthy, he could even just use a helicopter to quickly sell the merchandise to ensure his safety. You’ve seen too many movies. Why is he doing this risky and criminal activity if he’s already wealthy? Why isn’t this guy worried that the dealer “just shoots the guys for trespassing”? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/25 "2017-05-15T12:18:39Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > If you try to steal from too many dealers, someone who is ruthless will find a way to ensure you don’t do it again. Ask Omar Little. (No, not our **Omar Little** , [this one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Little).) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/26 "2017-05-15T12:24:20Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > I mean, you could also study his house with a drone or another guy for a few months before making any moves, and wait until there is a large-scale trade going on. Then if the trade is upon **public land** you could just literally walk up and go: “Hi! I’m Bob and I’m taking all your stuff!” and just start snatching stuff out of their hands and putting it in your car, picking up crates and boxes and putting them on your trailer. The drug dealers cannot stop you, since you have every single right to be where you are, since it’s public land and anyone can visit it, so they can’t shoot you for trespassing. They also can’t shoot you for stealing their stuff, since all their stuff is illegal, therefore “hidden” or “invisible”, so really you’re at the most just stealing empty, moldy cardboard boxes or old plastic bags, and perhaps not even that. It might not be legal for them to shoot you, but I suspect they might do it anyway. I’m finding it difficult to understand why a drug dealer would shrug his shoulders helplessly if you interrupted a drug deal in progress and started grabbing the drugs. Drug dealing is already illegal - why would they be so scrupulous about the laws against shooting people when they aren’t about the laws against drug dealing? IIRC there have been a number of instances of people being shot when they tried to rip someone off in a drug deal, or in disputes over drug-selling turf, and so forth. Drug dealers may not be the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree, but they are a little more resourceful than to say “hey, we can’t call the cops, so there’s nothing to be done.” > [@dude robert](#): > > If the dealers immediately send people after him, he could just drive over to a large police station and say there’s dozens of guys with steel bats and daggers running after him, and let the police take care of it. How do you think the police are going to take care of it? If you tell them they are after you because you stole their drugs, I think the police might arrest you and put you in a nice safe jail for drug possession. I rather doubt they will let you go and arrange for police protection 24/7. And I think they are going to be a little insistent on finding out why, exactly, people are trying to kill you. And if you won’t tell them, they will probably ask the drug dealers you ripped off why, and again, your safety is not going to be the police’s top priority. I have heard people refer to the shooting of drug dealers and other lowlifes as “public service homicides”. It doesn’t mean that the police shouldn’t investigate and try to close those homicides - just that ‘guy who rips off a drug dealer gets killed, drug dealer who kills him goes to prison’ can be considered a win-win situation from several points of view. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![PoppaSan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/poppasan/32/189_2.png) [@PoppaSan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoppaSan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/27 "2017-05-15T12:39:56Z")
OP, you do realize that police do act on anonymous tips. If you are in possession of illegal items, no matter how you acquired them, you can be turned in. You steal my briefcase of stolen jewelry or crack, if I can’t get it back or you have a habit of it, I’m calling the Johnny law tip line to remove you from the equation if I can’t take care of it with my buddies. Unless you are using the items personally, you have to sell them to get any value out of it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/28 "2017-05-15T14:02:16Z")
Police will not protect you. That is not their job, and they have no duty to protect you. When you tell them “angry, heavily armed drug dealers are coming after me” they’ll say “great, let us know when they get there”. They will not let you loiter around the police station waiting for the drug war you started to begin. They might clean up your body and glance around the crime scene for clues after the fact, though. If you’re lucky. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/29 "2017-05-15T14:10:21Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > Then if the trade is upon **public land** you could just literally walk up and go: “Hi! I’m Bob and I’m taking all your stuff!” and just start snatching stuff out of their hands and putting it in your car, picking up crates and boxes and putting them on your trailer. The drug dealers cannot stop you, since you have every single right to be where you are, since it’s public land and anyone can visit it, so they can’t shoot you for trespassing. They also can’t shoot you for stealing their stuff, since all their stuff is illegal, therefore “hidden” or “invisible”, so really you’re at the most just stealing empty, moldy cardboard boxes or old plastic bags, and perhaps not even that Seriously, **dude**!? “The violent, illegal-drug-trafficking cartel can’t stop me because that would be illegal”??? Are you listening to yourself? What you are proposing is nothing more than an elaborate suicide plan. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/30 "2017-05-17T08:45:58Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Police will not protect you. That is not their job, and they have no duty to protect you. Around here: "[insert name] [swear by Almighty God/do solemnly and sincerely affirm] that I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady the Queen as a police officer in Victoria in any capacity in which I may be appointed, promoted, or reduced to, without favour or affection, malice or ill-will for the period of [insert period] from this date, and until I am legally discharged, **that I will see and cause Her Majesty’s peace to be kept and preserved, and that I will prevent to the best of my power all offences,** and that while I continue to be a police officer I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties legally imposed on me faithfully and according to law. " > **[VICTORIA POLICE ACT 2013 - SCHEDULE 2](http://www7.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/vic/consol_act/vpa2013164/sch2.html)** > > Australasian Legal Information Institute (AustLII), a joint facility of UTS and UNSW Faculties of Law. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/31 "2017-05-17T12:39:05Z")
The OP might want to read up on what a “rock house” is. It’s an ordinary looking residence or warehouse that’s been armored inside to serve as a drug dealer’s retail store or warehouse. The typical design includes small floor-to-ceiling mazes at the entrances. Mazes well equipped with gun ports and goons aligned down each corridor. Anyone entering who behaves suspiciously won’t be alive at the other end where the goods are. The poor bastard who gets to answer the outside door is kinda like the “point man” in an infantry squad. IOW, he has lots of back-up but is ultimately expendable. As to goods in the forest, such a marijuana grow operation, lethal boobie traps are very common. The US forestry people have lots of problems with these. Likewise bad guys sometimes install video surveillance and have a team of goons near enough by to respond to the only path out of the forest before you can get back with enough product to matter. To be sure, with enough resources \*any \*set of defenses can be overwhelmed. The drug enforcement agencies of the world demonstrate this almost daily. Anything from taking candy from a baby and stealing the gold from Fort Knox can be done. You just need enough firepower and enough willingness to give and take casualties. Hint: the amount shown in movies is about 10% of what it takes for easy jobs and 0.001% of what it takes for really hard jobs. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2017, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/32 "2017-05-17T12:40:17Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Around here: > > "[insert name] [swear by Almighty God/do solemnly and sincerely affirm] that I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady the Queen as a police officer in Victoria in any capacity in which I may be appointed, promoted, or reduced to, without favour or affection, malice or ill-will for the period of [insert period] from this date, and until I am legally discharged, **that I will see and cause Her Majesty’s peace to be kept and preserved, and that I will prevent to the best of my power all offences,** and that while I continue to be a police officer I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties legally imposed on me faithfully and according to law. " > > [VICTORIA POLICE ACT 2013 - SCHEDULE 2](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/vpa2013164/sch2.html) “Ok, the, we’ll send a car by your place every few hours to see that everything is good.” The police cannot spend scarce man-hours providing doorman service to a potential victim. They will act if there’s a credible immediate threat -“Hello, 911? There’s a guy with a shotgun breaking down my door!” but they don’t provide bodyguards because sometime in the next week you might be a victim. They can’t even go after the other guy unless you can provide credible evidence they directly threatened you. (They can go to his door, hope he answers, and interview the guy, but they can’t really hold him) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/33 "2017-05-18T01:24:27Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > . > If the dealers immediately send people after him, he could just drive over to a large police station […] and let the police take care of it. I doubt the dealers would want to attack an entire police station, … > [@DrCube](#): > > Police will not protect you. That is not their job, and they have no duty to protect you… > [@Melbourne](#): > > "I… swear … that I will see and cause Her Majesty’s peace to be kept and preserved, and that I will prevent to the best of my power all offences > [@md2000](#): > > “Ok, the, we’ll send a car by your place every few hours to see that everything is good.” > The police cannot spend scarce man-hours providing doorman service to a potential victim. . I wouldn’t steal, I wouldn’t steal from a drug dealer, and I regard the police as a form of organised crime: I think it is unethical to involve them in anything, as well as unwise. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/34 "2017-05-19T19:04:30Z")
> [@dude\_robert](#): > > But what if the thief also lived in a place where you could legally shoot people that trespass onto your property with moderate warning if they look harmless, and no warning if they’re carrying a weapon? That would mean the thief could just install a few cameras outside his house and either call the police when a bunch of guys with steel pipes and machetes trespass into his property or just open fire on them? > > If the dealers immediately send people after him, he could just drive over to a large police station and say there’s dozens of guys with steel bats and daggers running after him, and let the police take care of it. I doubt the dealers would want to attack an entire police station, because that would attract too much attention and force he government to quickly hunt down and destroy all of the other dealer’s nests. Drug dealers aren’t stupid, and they’re probably better at this than you are. You have to sleep and leave your property sometime. Leading them right to the police isn’t likely to work, either. They know where the police stations are, and if you do this a few times, the police are going to start to wonder why you are casing the joint… Attracting the attention of the police when you’re doing something illegal is a pretty bad plan, but planning a gun fight with drug dealers is probably a worse one. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/38 "2018-12-10T12:01:33Z")
[Here](https://www.amazon.com/How-rip-off-drug-dealer/dp/087364283X) is a book the OP might want to consider. If they’re still skulking around. I noticed they’ve been 86’d. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/39 "2018-12-10T13:20:11Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I have heard people refer to the shooting of drug dealers and other lowlifes as “public service homicides”. It doesn’t mean that the police shouldn’t investigate and try to close those homicides - just that ‘guy who rips off a drug dealer gets killed, drug dealer who kills him goes to prison’ can be considered a win-win situation from several points of view. Per Ambrose Bierce: “There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable, and praiseworthy” ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/40 "2018-12-10T14:22:27Z")
OP, why not just get a job and live a relatively stress-free life? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597/41 "2018-12-10T14:44:48Z")
Although there have been some posts after the spammer who bumped this thread, I think, given the circumstances, I’m just going to close this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-laws-on-purchasing-illegal-items/786597.md?page=1)