# What are the limits on freedom of speech in the US constitution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005 "2002-04-27T20:27:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/21 "2002-04-28T20:08:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gadarene \* > \*\*I’m merely pointing out that SCOTUS doesn’t consider contributions to be speech at all, political or otherwise, and your First Amendment concerns are therefore misplaced. \*\* In my opinion (and the ACLU’s opinion) the Court erred in deciding that campaign contributions aren’t speech. Your point about other than political speech is interesting. Based on Buckley, would it be Constitutional to pass a law limiting the amount of money that that one could donate to some newspaper? I don’t think so. I don’t believe Buckley would be extended beyond campaign contributions. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2002, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/22 "2002-04-29T05:53:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > Nevertheless, there is probably greater freedom of speech now than ever before in America. As long as you don’t criticize the Bush II Administration – because, as unca Ashcroft tells us, criticism of the administration is tantamount to helping terrorists! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2002, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/23 "2002-04-29T13:14:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*As long as you don’t criticize the Bush II Administration – because, as unca Ashcroft tells us, criticism of the administration is tantamount to helping terrorists! :rolleyes: \*\* **rjung** , you don’t understand freedom of speech. I’m free to say something idiotic. Ashcroft is free to call me a traitor. I’m free to call Ashcroft a fascist. There’s no impairment to my FOS unless the government punishes me for what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/24 "2002-04-29T14:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > In my opinion (and the ACLU’s opinion) the Court erred in deciding that campaign contributions aren’t speech. Right. But as long as that is the Court’s decision, you’re dead wrong in saying that money is speech in this context. It isn’t. And, IMHO, it shouldn’t be. “Impropriety or the appearance of impropriety,” remember? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/25 "2002-04-29T19:56:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > **rjung** , you don’t understand freedom of speech. Oh, I understand it – as a former card-carrying member of the ACLU, I’m well-versed on these types of issues. > [@](#): > > I’m free to say something idiotic. Ashcroft is free to call me a traitor. True, though given his position as Attorney General, his statements tend to have a bit more weight. And while it’s not currently treason to criticize the Dubya administration, Ashcroft’s statement seemed to me to be an implied threat. > [@](#): > > There’s no impairment to my FOS unless the government punishes me for what I said. And given how Ashcroft has been systematically dismantling the Bill of Rights these days, that may happen any day now… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/26 "2002-04-29T20:33:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > Oh, I understand it – as a former card-carrying member of the ACLU, I’m well-versed on these types of issues. Since you’re a fellow free speech advocate, I should go easy on you. However, this is great debates, and duty calls. 🙂 > [@](#): > > True, though given his position as Attorney General, his statements tend to have a bit more weight. Nevertheless, mere statements by Ashcroft do not infringe our FOS. > [@](#): > > And while it’s not currently treason to criticize the Dubya administration, Ashcroft’s statement seemed to me to be an implied threat. I know you’re not alone in this POV, but I think it’s a case of over-sensitivity. BTW where were the free speech advocates complaining about implicit threats when Hillary Clinton called people like me members of a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy? > [@](#): > > And given how Ashcroft has been systematically dismantling the Bill of Rights these days, that [punishment for speech] may happen any day now… You’re jumping the gun, here. If that ever occurs, I’ll be side-by-side with you, **rjung**. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/27 "2002-04-30T18:58:13Z")
Just as a casual thought, it’s perfectly legal to shout ‘Fire’ in a crowded theater, _provided that there is an actual fire burning at the moment._ What Justice Holmes characterized as not being included in the freedom was ‘_falsely_ shouting “fire”…’ ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/28 "2002-04-30T20:12:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > BTW where were the free speech advocates complaining about implicit threats when Hillary Clinton called people like me members of a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy? I wasn’t aware that Hillary singled you out by name, **december.** 😉 And you will have to admit that the First Lady of the United States has a lot less power and authority than the Attorney General of the United States. Besides, considering that there’s [a good argument](http://www.salon.com/news/1998/05/18news.html) that there _was_ a right-wing conspiracy against the Clintons, perhaps Hillary’s statement was nothing more than an iteration of the truth… ---
**Author:** ![Ms.Lois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Ms.Lois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms.Lois)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/29 "2002-04-30T20:40:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*BTW where were the free speech advocates complaining about implicit threats when Hillary Clinton called people like me members of a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy?You’re jumping the gun, here. If that ever occurs, I’ll be side-by-side with you, **rjung**. \*\* You forget that **treason** is a specific crime named in the Constitution. “Right wing conspiracy” was merely a turn of phrase, not an accuation of a crime any more than calling someone “liberal” is accusation of a crime. But then having liberal thoughts, to many conservatives, **is** be considered criminal… ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2002, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/30 "2002-04-30T20:56:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ms. Lois \* > \*\*But then having liberal thoughts, to many conservatives, **is** be considered criminal… \*\* Cite? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2002, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/31 "2002-05-01T17:43:56Z")
You want an anecdotal cite on an anecdotal claim? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2002, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005/32 "2002-05-02T07:42:09Z")
I like to shout “MOVIE!” in crowded fire houses, but since 9/11 the fire fighters are all pretty jumpy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-limits-on-freedom-of-speech-in-the-us-constitution/106005.md?page=1)