# What are the main cafes right now in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799 "2025-03-19T00:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/1 "2025-03-19T00:05:21Z")
The reason for asking, is that Starbucks in struggling in the UK and so our market has shifted, (the TL;DR is that _Costa_ has taken over as market leader) and I hear Starbucks is also on the decline in the US, so I am wondering what the main chains are, or if independents are getting a foothold again? Starbucks is declining in the UK because they are pretty much the most expensive and they have shifted increasingly to a takeout model. The cafes themselves tend to be smaller and with uncomfortable seating. The only thing which could save Starbucks now IMO is if they sold the big scones that inexplicably I have only ever found in Asian branches. I don’t think the number of independents in the UK has changed that much in recent years. Basically the coffee market has gotten bigger, but most of it has been gobbled by the big (non-starbucks) chains. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/2 "2025-03-19T00:08:55Z")
At least in New England -Dunkin Donuts is a popular place to get coffee and donuts though I really never heard of someone describing it as a “cafe”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/3 "2025-03-19T00:10:20Z")
Starbucks is probably still #1, but Dunkin’ (formerly known as Dunkin’ Donuts, and they still sell donuts, but primarily coffee) is catching up. As far as actual coffee shops go (i.e., where coffee is the primary product), I think those are the only chains around here, though you’ll still see the odd independent here and there (but the total number of independents is probably less than either Dunkin’ or Starbucks). There used to be a local chain around here called Arabica, that held out against the Starbucks juggernaut for many years, but they eventually succumbed. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/4 "2025-03-19T00:16:16Z")
I’m going to need to see a few more responses before I can contribute - I’m still trying to get my head around the idea that Starbucks (or Dunkin) is called a _cafe_ somewhere in the world… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/5 "2025-03-19T00:17:07Z")
It’s interesting. As massive a market as the US is, in some areas it seems really not very diversified e.g. Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/6 "2025-03-19T00:20:19Z")
In my experience, the US lacks the café culture of the Europeans. What it has instead is “casual dining” exemplified by places like Big Boy and Denny’s. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/7 "2025-03-19T00:21:03Z")
Haha, on first draft I think I said something like “coffee place” but I didn’t want it getting confused with places for buying coffee materials or machines. I will say though that the connotation of “cafe” is likely different here in the UK. It can be anything from an upmarket coffee shop with Instagram-able interiors and desserts, down to a mom n pop place with plastic tables primarily selling fried breakfasts. ETA: it’s actually quite annoying because when you’re in an unfamiliar town, you’re usually looking for one kind of thing or the other, and google maps lacks good ways of differentiating the two. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/8 "2025-03-19T00:22:25Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > I’m going to need to see a few more responses before I can contribute - I’m still trying to get my head around the idea that Starbucks (or Dunkin) is called a _cafe_ somewhere in the world… What, really, is the difference between a coffee shop and a cafe? The one has bigger drinks, and the other has coasters? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/9 "2025-03-19T00:24:40Z")
I think Monk’s in _ **Seinfeld** _ is about as close as you can come to a café in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/10 "2025-03-19T00:32:55Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > down to a mom n pop place with plastic tables primarily selling fried breakfasts. That would be a diner in the US. Usually with sit-down counter service. But there’s some overlap (and some places call themselves a cafe and diner). ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/11 "2025-03-19T00:33:44Z")
_Central Perk_ fits better the UK style (coffee) cafe ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/12 "2025-03-19T00:34:30Z")
Starbucks, Dunkin, Peets, Dutch Bros, etc are some of the many coffee shops in the United States. And I have not heard anything about Starbucks declining. Edited to add, even Mcdonalds is trying to compete, calling its stores McCafe. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/13 "2025-03-19T00:34:50Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > That would be a diner in the US. Usually with sit-down counter service. But there’s some overlap (and some places call themselves a cafe and diner). Yes it would be great if we used the word “diner” in the UK. As I say, until then “cafe” remains a pretty ambiguous term here. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/14 "2025-03-19T00:35:13Z")
Still overwhelmingly Starbucks here in California. If you count the ones in grocery stores you can find three or four at the same intersection. Still, there is room for a lot of regional chains that offer cozier and quieter dining (sipping?) areas and more specialized baked goods. These places are superior to Starbucks when it comes to dates or socializing or meetings or studying. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/15 "2025-03-19T00:36:28Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I have not heard anything about Starbucks declining. > **[Starbucks in huge shake-up after biggest fall in sales since the pandemic](https://www.standard.co.uk/business/starbucks-coffee-queues-latter-sales-revenue-fall-b1189512.html)** > > Financial results revealed like for like store sales dropped by 7% in the fourth quarter to September compared with 2023. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/16 "2025-03-19T00:38:21Z")
When I think of a “diner” in the UK, I think of where Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane were eating at the start of _ **Nuns on the Run** _. Is that what you call such places? ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/17 "2025-03-19T00:38:53Z")
Well, my closest coffee place (the one that I retired to spend more time at) certainly has a café culture\*. A couple different groups of retirees meet there every morning. I say “meet” but it’s more casual than that; it’s more like “drop in and see who’s there that morning.” There are groups of students that hang out there, too. Anyhow, that’s an independent place, though it has three other locations in town. It’s very successful. To take Santa Barbara for example, I’ve hung out at a good dozen independent coffeeshops: Handlebar, Cajé, Dune, Mosaic, Dart (with a beautiful garden to sip in!), etc etc. In fact, you can walk up State Street and hit a dozen of those… so coffee “cafés” that aren’t Starbucks or Dunkin are alive and kicking in the USofA. . \*I love the concept so much that I found a “Café Society” online to hang out at… ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/18 "2025-03-19T00:40:04Z")
It appears that the number of Starbucks has been increasing for the past twenty years, but the amount of sales has dropped recently. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/19 "2025-03-19T00:42:34Z")
Yes, AIUI they changed their strategy during the pandemic and have been left on the backfoot a little. I didn’t want to get too much into the decline itself though (and why I didn’t post a cite originally) because it’s always complicated with this stuff. There are many factors feeding into the profitability of a chain with hundreds of outlets and millions spent on marketing and other indirect costs. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/20 "2025-03-19T00:42:45Z")
Starbucks in the Chicago area remains the big one. I, too, have not heard anything about its presence waning. They are ubiquitous and seem to still be building more and more. One just opened up last year about two miles from me, bringing the Starbucks within a two-mile radius of my house to five, I believe. (Yes, I see the new reply, but it’s decline is certainly not visible to me here.) There are a number of Peet’s around. There’s a handful of Philz (from San Francisco). There’s LaColombe, Colectivo from Milwaukee. But the main game in town for coffee is Starbucks and Dunkin, but Dunkin is not really a place you sit around and drink coffee and have conversation. It’s more for stuff to-go. It doesn’t have that community or meeting place feeling the others listed have. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=2)