# What are the main cafes right now in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799 "2025-03-19T00:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/21 "2025-03-19T00:44:15Z")
I would say in American English, “cafe” means a place that primarily sells coffee, drinks, and a place to use the wifi. They probably have baked goods and maybe sandwiches, but it’s not really about the food. In the more civilized parts of America funky independently owned cafes are myriad, but Starbucks exists everywhere and most areas have some local chains as well. A “diner”, on the other hand, is a restaurant that usually has an extensive menu of breakfast items, burgers, and entrees. Unlike a restaurant proper, though, it’s also fine to go there just to drink coffee and use the…WIFI!! (edited) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/22 "2025-03-19T00:45:59Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > it’s also fine to go there just to drink coffee and use the wife. I think that’s frowned upon at most diners. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/23 "2025-03-19T00:46:27Z")
A couple of different things. Yes, as @Mijin cited, Starbucks is struggling, but is still doing fine in terms of overall profitability and penetration. But they absolutely took major self inflicted wounds in killing their in-store shopping because the prices are high enough to make you wonder why you’re paying so much if ALL you’re getting is the drive-thru coffee model they were pushing. Thus, they’re redirecting traffic back inside, offering “inside” ceramic mugs, and other options… but no, the comfy chairs of the past are gone, as are the days of opening a Starbucks down the street from another location! I’m seeing two main styles in competition, though at least one of them is far from any sort of cafe definition. Mostly it’s the local, locations, which do what Starbucks does, but are agressively selling their part of the community, non-chain status. Many of which have their own internal or bespoke roasters which they proudly display. You’re getting a hand-crafted drink from a barista, but… they aren’t fast, and they aren’t really _cheaper_ than Starbucks. So small, local, loyal followings, but at least half of the ones I knew died during Covid. The second, and more successful option in some ways is the dedicated drive-thru only option, smaller than even a food truck, and often smack in the middle of some otherwise half-used parking lot. These places seem to do a good bit of business, and are _generally_ cheaper than Starbucks, while still being pretty fast. But the coffee can be really uneven. But I don’t think Starbucks is going to be losing anytime soon. Sure, they can and should close some of their excessively close locations, and I think the day and age of having a coffee shop (Starbucks or not) in every grocery store should fade away - but given the name recognition, the adequate (if you like that sort of thing) quality, and the corporate options in terms of funding and nationwide marketing, the local places are never going to compete for the same market. Note - this is a market Starbucks has largely created for itself, with giant, super-sweet drinks that you slam down. I’ve been to a Dunkin’, and while they’re aggressively parroting the trends (same sort of drinks, especially frozen-frosted ones) at a slightly cheaper price, I never see a large number of young people there. Some, sure! But I think they’re chasing a model that Starbucks is already trying to modify, and that’s generally not a winning plan. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/24 "2025-03-19T00:48:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > > > it’s also fine to go there just to drink coffee and use the wife. > > I think that’s frowned upon at most diners. Now I definitely want to visit a US diner 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/25 "2025-03-19T00:49:45Z")
This is my understanding as well. In Europe, a café will sell mainly hot beverages, pastries, and maybe sandwiches and crêpes, nothing more substantial. They’re comfortable places to sit, relax, and watch the world go by. A really good place will have tables outdoors in good weather. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/26 "2025-03-19T00:51:40Z")
Yes, that’s pretty much the model here, too. Although in Europe they usually sell booze as well, which isn’t the case here in Jesusland. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/27 "2025-03-19T00:52:07Z")
From the website below (from a restaurant industry publication), listing the top U.S. restaurant chains based on 2023 numbers, and me filtering them to the ones that are primarily coffee places: 1. Starbucks ($31.6 billion U.S. sales in 2023, 16,446 U.S. locations; #2 restaurant chain overall) 2. Dunkin ($12.0 billion, 9,580 locations, #6 overall) 3. Dutch Bros. ($1.4 billion, 831 locations, #48 overall) 4. Tim Horton’s ($751 million, 642 locations, #73 overall) 5. Scooter’s Coffee ($561 million, 750 locations, #98 overall) 6. Caribou Coffee ($367 million, 480 locations, #130 overall) So, it’s really Starbucks and Dunkin, with Starbucks having nearly twice the locations and nearly three times the revenue as Dunkin; even if Starbucks’ sales were to drop 10% a year for several years, they’d still be well ahead of Dunkin. Everyone else is tiny (and regional, I believe) by comparison. > **[Meet the 2024 Top 500: The biggest restaurant chains in America](https://www.nrn.com/top-500-restaurants/meet-the-2024-top-500-the-biggest-restaurant-chains-in-america)** > > This year’s Technomic Top 500 shows restaurant-industry growth, but also some warning signs. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/28 "2025-03-19T00:53:13Z")
American diners serve some of the best hot food I’ve ever had. Much better than the standardized fast-food chains. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/29 "2025-03-19T00:54:41Z")
Without looking I’m going to guess that those bottom four are all very regional. I’ve seen Dutch Bros in the PNW but nowhere else and Tim Hortons in Milwaukee but nowhere else. There used to be some Caribous around here but I haven’t seen them in many years. Never heard of Scooters. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/30 "2025-03-19T00:57:29Z")
In Canada, you can’t travel five miles without running into at least one Tim Hortons. (And yes, it’s spelled “Hortons” because French Canadians don’t use the possessive apostrophe.) There’s one right up the street where I live now. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/31 "2025-03-19T00:57:52Z")
I just looked up Starbucks in our (medium-sized midwestern) city, because I don’t know ANYone who goes to one. They’re just not on the radar for anyone who wants a cozy place to hang out (or a tasty variety of coffees, bakery and sandwiches). Someone mentioned Colectivo from Milwaukee: perfect example. Always three or four coffees on tap, lots of espresso drinks and teas. Breakfast sandwiches and burritos and turkey/ham sandwiches. And the bakery! Homemade croissants, scones, cakes, breads, and cookies (including a Cowboy Cookie that ah reckon’ll plump up yer gizzard, ya rapscallion). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/32 "2025-03-19T00:58:42Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I’ve seen Dutch Bros in the PNW but nowhere else and Tim Hortons in Milwaukee but nowhere else. There used to be some Caribous around here but I haven’t seen them in many years. Never heard of Scooters. A friend of mine who lives in Modesto, CA gets coffee at a Dutch Bros there regularly. I’ve seen Tims in suburban Detroit, and in Columbus OH (they seem to be concentrated in the Midwest). I’d not heard of Scooters, until one opened up near my parents’ house in Green Bay WI (their coffee is pretty good). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/33 "2025-03-19T00:58:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > So, it’s really Starbucks and Dunkin I wonder if they account for even half the market if you add in independents and local chains. We have at least 50 cafes in my town and only about six are Starbucks and none are Dunkin. ---
**Author:** ![sunacres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@sunacres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunacres)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/34 "2025-03-19T01:00:08Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In my experience, the US lacks the café culture of the Europeans. > [@digs](#): > > Well, my closest coffee place (the one that I retired to spend more time at) certainly has a café culture\*. While not exactly the same as the European café culture, what @digs describes is parallel and matches my usage in the SF area. At least in this neck of the woods, although functionally equivalent, chains like Starbucks, Peet’s, Philz, etc. are not thought of as cafés, they’re Starbucks, or Peet’s, or Philz. A café is the nearly the same thing except independently owned and operated. So the question of the “main café” in the US didn’t register for me. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/35 "2025-03-19T01:02:05Z")
I guess if I had to name a MAIN cafe in the US it would be the Cafe du Nord in New Orleans. I can’t think of any other that’s so well known. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/36 "2025-03-19T01:03:21Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I wonder if they account for even half the market if you add in independents and local chains. We have at least 50 cafes in my town and only about six are Starbucks and none are Dunkin. Probably varies widely by city/market. Here in Chicago, there are certainly many small independents (or chains with a couple of locations), but Starbucks and Dunkins are _everywhere_ – in the Loop (downtown), you can’t walk two blocks without finding one or the other (if not both). ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/37 "2025-03-19T01:03:49Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > So the question of the “main café” in the US didn’t register for me. Yeah.a large majority of Starbucks’s sales are to-go orders. If you want to sit down and while away a half hour or so, you go somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/38 "2025-03-19T01:04:02Z")
Not the Café du Monde on (IIRC) Decatur Street? ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/39 "2025-03-19T01:04:56Z")
In my small western PA town we have a Dunkin. No Starbucks nearby. I don’t like Starbucks but will on occasion buy from Dunkin. We have a lovely hometown cafe opened by a young man during covid. It’s really blossomed during the last five years. Most of the people I work with either get coffee from this cafe or Dunkin. Me? I have a Keurig at work and make my own. Can’t see spending 5 - 10 dollars every day for a cup of coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/40 "2025-03-19T01:05:36Z")
I mean, there are a lot of venerable cafes in Greenwich Village and North Beach (San Francisco) but offhand I can’t remember the names of any in particular. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=3)