# What are the main cafes right now in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799 "2025-03-19T00:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/61 "2025-03-19T13:47:05Z")
Is Second Cup dead in the US? Australia has very few chains for coffee but EVERYone sells good coffee, even the local service station has a proper Italian espresso machine on the counter. Always surprised when Hungry Jacks ( Burger King ) shows me their lovely espresso machine, As a senior I get a free latte with any meal purchase. So for brekkie ( ya ya Aussies are a lot on slang ) A good deal is bacon and egg wrap with a hash brown for $4.50 all in and the free latte… ☕ 🥳 ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/62 "2025-03-19T13:47:25Z")
Is Panera still a thing anywhere? I’ve never really heard anyone rave about their coffee, but in my area it’s definitely the place people go to sit and use the wifi, or have a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/63 "2025-03-19T13:48:26Z")
Good bread for sure. Did not go there much before I left Canada, ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/64 "2025-03-19T13:51:33Z")
> [@MacDoc](#): > > Is Second Cup dead in the US? [This article](https://www.worldcoffeeportal.com/Latest/News/2023/October/Second-Cup-Coffee-Company-eyeing-US-expansion) from 2023 says that: > [@](#): > > The coffee chain is currently laying the groundwork for expansion into the 40,000-store US branded coffee shop market and is seeking multi-unit franchise partners to expedite the move. So, I’m not sure that they were ever in the U.S. before (or, if they were, it was years ago, and on a small scale). > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Is Panera still a thing anywhere? There are still a number of them in the Chicago area, and the article with the restaurant rankings lists them as the #11 restaurant chain in the U.S. I don’t view them as being primarily a coffee place (more about bakery and food), but I agree, they are definitely a “sit and use the wifi” place. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/65 "2025-03-19T13:52:21Z")
> \*Does this give away my age? Maybe - because I see people saying this > I don’t know that there is a hard line between the two, but I believe cafes have wait service while coffee shops don’t. and this > Starbucks is _the_ dominant coffee shop here in NYC. And I’m " What" ? A “coffee shop” to me is the sort of breakfast, maybe lunch restaurant that has counter service and maybe a couple of booths or tables. ( Not as many of these left in NYC as there used to be) Often a wall of doughnuts. It’s similar to a diner, except that diners usually have more tables/booths and serve dinner. A “cafe” to me , sells coffee and baked goods - not sandwiches or egg/pancake breakfasts. And not just donuts - that would be a “donut shop”. A cafe might or might not have table service or maybe not - but it’s basically the equivalent of a bakery that sells coffee and has some tables. Starbucks and Dunkin are just fast food coffee places. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/66 "2025-03-19T13:55:25Z")
How bad is cellular data service in the U.S. that people are still willing to us public wi-fi? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/67 "2025-03-19T14:01:10Z")
Not that it’s bad (though it sometimes is); it’s probably more that (a) not everyone has an unlimited data plan on their phones, and (b) they are often using the wifi for their laptops. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/68 "2025-03-19T14:02:30Z")
I don’t know how pervasive “hot spots” are to pair your laptop to your cell network, so I’d assume laptop users are using the wifi. I think also “using the wifi” is almost just a metaphor now for “sitting and staring at a screen.” The users might not actually be using the cafe’s wifi. But that’s what I’m going to call it. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/69 "2025-03-19T14:02:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How bad is cellular data service in the U.S. that people are still willing to us public wi-fi? I assume it’s because they want a comfortable place to sit and work, and that isn’t as boring as staying at home. I regularly work in cafes (in fact, I’m typing this in one now), but maybe 1 in 4 has lousy wifi. In which case I use my phone’s 4/5G which is more than adequate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/70 "2025-03-19T14:12:57Z")
Another reason to sit in a café for work rather than staying home is just for the socialization. Many of us work from home, so we don’t see others throughout the day. Working in a café may help. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/71 "2025-03-19T14:17:37Z")
I’m beginning to realize we Americans don’t have a better word for places like Starbucks than just “coffee place”. Coffee shops serve food made to order. Coffeehouse are counterculture performance venues from days of yore. And cafes are more akin to French bistros. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/72 "2025-03-19T14:18:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It may be worth noting that, especially compared to some European countries, the U.S. “coffee culture,” as it stands today, is a pretty recent phenomenon. I remember Madison, WI having ZERO coffee places! Hard to believe, because the UW, the Capitol and businesses make for a busy downtown. I’d just come from Harvard Square, where you’d be served your own french press, good for a couple of cups. I was surprised that Madison had nothing like this. But this was the mid-'70s, when, if you wanted a cup of coffee, you’d order a meal at a diner. Or a drugstore… the local Rennebohm’s (now Walgreen’s) would have a lunch counter that served breakfast. Ahh… I miss the Number Nine: Two eggs, toast and hash browns; with coffee, $1.05. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/73 "2025-03-19T14:19:08Z")
I think what you’re calling a coffee shop I would call a diner. I am familiar with this usage but consider it mildly archaic. IME NYC has lots of diners, but I’ve never seen one that closes for dinner; indeed, very long hours are one of their defining features. I’m guessing maybe a few decades ago rents were cheap enough that a diner could afford to be open only half-time, but the world has moved on. I would consider “coffee shop” (outside of Amsterdam). a nebulous catch-all term for places that primarily sell coffee. A drive-through Starbucks and a place with comfy couches selling $16 single origin tumeric lattes are both coffee shops, but only the latter is a cafe. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/74 "2025-03-19T14:19:52Z")
I don’t think it used to be that odd to go into a bar and order a coffee back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/75 "2025-03-19T14:22:57Z")
I agree with Elmer, “coffeehouse” signifies the sort of place where Ferlinghetti and Kerouac hung out listening to jazz and smoking reefers. I would consider anyplace trying to call itself that in 2025 unbearably pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/76 "2025-03-19T14:24:39Z")
I think at 57 and having grown up in a college town, I am JUST young enough to not remember the dark times when quality coffee wasn’t widely available. Thank Og! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/77 "2025-03-19T14:27:10Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I’m beginning to realize we Americans don’t have a better word for places like Starbucks than just “coffee place”. Coffee shops serve food made to order. Coffeehouse are counterculture performance venues from days of yore. And cafes are more akin to French bistros. As I say, at least less ambiguity than in british english. Where, if you see “Ren’s Cafe”, say, on a map, you have no idea what it is without checking the actual photos and reviews. It could be a fancy cafe with soft-lighting, bookshelves and other furnishing that would be fine for part of a first date. Or it could be the front room of what was originally a house converted into a bright, noisy “greasy spoon” restaurant (not to knock them, just it’s a pain when you arrive at the wrong kind of cafe). > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I don’t think it used to be that odd to go into a bar and order a coffee back in the day. In the UK, the majority of pubs, and even bars, serve coffee, but it’s probably because the majority of pubs sell food. It’s quite unusual for someone to just order coffee at such places though (I do it, but the bar staff are often a bit surprised, and it seems to mess with their rhythm). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/78 "2025-03-19T14:29:43Z")
Related question that I hope is not too much of a hijack. How to pronounce cafe vs café? I’ve heard cafe pronounced as the first syllable of cafeteria, while café is pronounced with a long A on the end. Do people use the unaccented spelling but pronounce as if the accent is there? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/79 "2025-03-19T14:31:16Z")
> [@sunacres](#): > > At least in this neck of the woods, although functionally equivalent, chains like Starbucks, Peet’s, Philz, etc. are not thought of as cafés, they’re Starbucks, or Peet’s, or Philz. The Peet’s I know of around here originally opened as a Caribou Coffee. Outdoor seating and two big roll-up doors which are open when the weather’s nice. https://www.google.com/maps/embed?pb=!4v1742394283605!6m8!1m7!1s02Z-zrBXLsNw_GJLmCkbiQ!2m2!1d38.84095013163487!2d-77.08872024921172!3f304.5194672174485!4f4.219889194393701!5f1.5378273236760784 [This combination Irish-style chippie and bar](https://maps.app.goo.gl/YRAAZvxPbbi95AkB7) had a stock of board games for patrons. The chippie was part of a local chain which is now out of business; that location is yet another Starbucks now. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/80 "2025-03-19T14:32:19Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > in Europe they usually sell booze as well But not in the UK. But you can go to a pub and drink coffee or tea, eat a variety of snacks or even proper food. And have an alcoholic drink. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=5)