# What are the main cafes right now in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799 "2025-03-19T00:05:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/141 "2025-03-20T01:33:58Z")
My grade school had a “cafetorium” with a kitchen, stage, and even an overhead projection booth (that doubled as a tutor’s room.) ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/142 "2025-03-20T01:43:19Z")
When I first discovered SBUX, it was an experience. A great variety of coffees and caffeinated drinks and some very comfy chairs to just sit, relax, and read a paper in. I’d say by the mid-2000s, it had overgrown and lost its uniqueness. When I think of ‘cafes’, I think local. In Oregon, it was Dutch Bros. In the Bay Area, it was Philz or Coffee Society (South Bay). In Northern VA it’s Compass but I don’t go out much now. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/143 "2025-03-20T02:36:02Z")
Nero is the Italian word for the colour “black”, so I would guess Cafe Nero is a “joke” about black coffee… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/144 "2025-03-20T03:16:34Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Still overwhelmingly Starbucks here in California. If you count the ones in grocery stores you can find three or four at the same intersection. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lQKdEdzHnfU/hqdefault.jpg "We Met At Starbucks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKdEdzHnfU) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/145 "2025-03-20T03:36:42Z")
When I hear “coffee shop,” I think of the little hole-in-the-wall “diner-ettes” on the ground floors of the hotels I stayed at with my dad while on summer vacation. There would be maybe two or three booths and a counter with four or five stools where you could get a cup of Joe at odd hours and maybe a light breakfast early in the morning. The early White Castles were a lot like this too, and they usually had one wall behind the counter that was polished steel. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/146 "2025-03-20T06:51:19Z")
You got me thinking, what is the difference between a cafeteria and a refectory? > [@terentii](#): > > When I hear “coffee shop,” I think of the little hole-in-the-wall “diner-ettes” on the ground floors of the hotels I stayed at with my dad while on summer vacation. There would be maybe two or three booths and a counter with four or five stools where you could get a cup of Joe at odd hours and maybe a light breakfast early in the morning. Here is a nice European cafe: > **[Cafe Central Vienna : Virtual tour generated by Panotour](https://cafecentral.wien/360/en/cafe-central/cafe-engl/index.html)** > > Virtual tour generated by Panotour ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/147 "2025-03-20T07:04:22Z")
Well, from a US perspective, the main difference is that nothing is ever called a refectory unless they’re trying to be old-fashioned and cute sounding. A refectory is what you’d find at a real-life monastery, or Oxford, or Hogwarts. A cafeteria, or maybe a “dining commons”, is what you’d find at a US university. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/148 "2025-03-20T07:34:26Z")
If it’s called a “refectory,” it’s a sure bet you won’t be able to afford it! ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/149 "2025-03-20T10:07:06Z")
China-based [Luckin Coffee](https://www.worldcoffeeportal.com/Latest/News/2024/October/China-s-Luckin-Coffee-reportedly-planning-US-launc) plans to open stores in the U.S., selling coffee at half the price charged by Starbucks. It’s a bold move, since they were caught in a financial scandal a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/150 "2025-03-21T02:12:46Z")
I lived in China during Luckin’s launch, and it was great. It was really popular, and I was very surprised to hear about them fraudulently inflating their sales figures. Even before covid though, Luckin was more of a takeaway / delivery model, and if they do this in foreign markets then they are taking on Starbucks head on, rather than do like the UK’s Costa and take some of the market that Starbucks may have neglected. I do say _if_ they do this in foreign markets though, because I’ve lived in a few countries and it’s often interesting to see how differently brands can pitch themselves in different markets. Notably, Starbucks in Shanghai is largely _not_ for takeaway; it’s not only more of a sit-in place, but some of the branches are quite fancy [Starbucks Reserve](https://roastery.starbucks.com.cn/en/). So maybe luckin will, like Starbucks, try something a little different in the different market. > **[Starbucks Reserve® Shanghai Roastery](https://roastery.starbucks.com.cn/en/)** > > Starbucks Reserve® Shanghai Roastery website ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/151 "2025-03-21T02:30:53Z")
I’ve been to a Starbucks Reserve, twice in fact, the location in the upscale shopping area, the Domain, in Austin Texas. Which doesn’t seem to exist per the Starbuck Reserve website, or rather, not as a Reserve location anymore. And the Domain is quite nice overall, something of a perfect location one would assume. Which indicates to me that the whole Reserve subgroup has largely been abandoned, with only 3 locations left in the US. For that matter, during the time it had Reserve status, it wasn’t very much a laid-back cafe where people would sip drinks and relax or soak in the ambiance, but was a trendy “be seen drinking the latest offerings” and instagram it. Though that’s actually a lot of the Domain to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/152 "2025-03-21T15:14:34Z")
Regardless of what they serve, when I hear the word “cafe” the first thing that comes to mind are small tables that are big enough for at most 2 people. ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/153 "2025-03-22T04:23:08Z")
> [@natureboy](#): > > In the Bay Area, it was Philz or Coffee Society (South Bay). As a student, the Med on Telegraph Avenue was already the place for coffee, deep philosophical discussions, fomenting revolution (right around the corner from what became People’s Park), and the occasional drug deal. [Looking it up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffe_Mediterraneum), it looks like it might have been one of the first coffee houses in the East Bay (established in the mid-50’s). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/154 "2025-03-22T16:51:27Z")
My impression is that smaller independent coffee shops, including ones that do their own roasting, are gaining market share. Even though a fair fraction can’t end up making the business work profitably. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/155 "2025-03-22T17:30:00Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > This is the Boston area, where some of the idiosyncratic usages I found when I moved here are fading out. I haven’t heard “water bubbler” in ages as well. Last time I looked, they were simply “bubblers” in Wisconsin. I had never heard the term until I was 18 and met a guy from Fond du Lac. In Minnesota, they’re just called “drinking fountains.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/156 "2025-03-22T17:32:50Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Last time I looked, they were simply “bubblers” in Wisconsin. Indeed. “Bubbler” seems to be idiosyncratic to eastern Wisconsin, as well as the Boston area (though it sounds like it might be “water bubbler” there). ---
**Author:** ![MacDoc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/macdoc/32/18696_2.png) [@MacDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacDoc)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/157 "2025-03-22T17:39:23Z")
Australia is coffee lovers heaven with coffee replacing beer as the natonal drink. You can get a quality coffee everywhere, service stations, fast food joints all have good Italian machines. The upper end is also a treat. [https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Restaurant\_Review-g255070-d2321920-Reviews-Origin\_Espresso\_Port\_Douglas-Port\_Douglas\_Queensland.html](https://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Restaurant_Review-g255070-d2321920-Reviews-Origin_Espresso_Port_Douglas-Port_Douglas_Queensland.html) The food is pricey but good, the hours suck but the coffee worth the effort. > **[origin espresso](https://originespressopd.com.au/)** > > Speciality coffee roaster based in Port Douglas Even Hungry Jacks ( Burger King ) has excellent coffee which I get for free with any meal as senior. > **[Jack's Cafe](https://www.hungryjacks.com.au/menu/jack-s-cafe)** > > We know Aussies love great quality barista-made coffee. At Jack's Cafe, we have better tasting, barista made coffee conveniently and consistently crafted, made just for you. Available at participating restaurants only. Can end up with a bacon and egg roll, potato crisp and a latte for $5. Can’t eat out anywhere close to that. Maccas ( McDonalds in local dialect ) has their own cafe’s and they are decent but don’t have the deals Hungry Jacks does. > **[McCafé® Menu | McCafé® at McDonald's | McDonald's Australia](https://mcdonalds.com.au/menu/mccafe)** > > Love a good cup of coffee? Meet the new McCafé® blend. Crafted to perfection by expert baristas, just the way you like it. Order now from our McCafé® menu! It is good coffee. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/158 "2025-03-22T17:47:49Z")
My impression seems to be incorrect. > **[Led by Big Chains, US Coffee Shop Market Surpasses 40,000 Stores](https://dailycoffeenews.com/2023/10/24/led-by-big-chains-us-coffee-shop-market-surpasses-40000-stores/)** > > The value of the United States coffee shop market grew 8% to $49.5 billion over the past year, resulting in a 4% increase in the market's pre-pandemic value > The report notes that Starbucks maintains a whopping 40% share of the market in terms of number of outlets, with more than 16,000 in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799/159 "2025-03-22T18:10:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The report notes that Starbucks maintains a whopping 40% share of the market in terms of number of outlets, with more than 16,000 in the U.S. And, with Dunkin’ at nearly 10,000 U.S. locations, that gives the two chains, combined, roughly a 65% share of the locations/stores in the category. Which gets back to the OP’s question: the main coffee chains in the U.S. are Starbucks and Dunkin’, by a mile; beyond those two, every other chain and independent shop, _combined_, amount to fewer stores than Starbucks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-main-cafes-right-now-in-the-us/1015799.md?page=7)