# What are the militias all about in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912 "2002-11-26T16:54:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/1 "2002-11-26T16:54:47Z")
I’ve heard about all the militias in the south and mississipi region. Who are they? What do they do? Why did they form? Take in mind this is from the michael moore thread which found out that a certain militia grouped up becuase they had all lost their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/2 "2002-11-26T17:18:03Z")
Well, it depends what you mean by “militia.” Some states have active organizations of armed citizens that form a militia and can be called upon to defend the state in case of invasion, or assist during emergencies and natural disasters. Also, there are groups of nutballs who have some guns and form small groups with the eventual goal of taking over the country. These people are usually aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, and other nefarious organizations. Often they keep to themselves and play soldier all day, but occasionally you’ll hear about the ATF raiding these militia compounds and seizing illegal weapons, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/3 "2002-11-26T17:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > **These people are usually aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, and other nefarious organizations. Often they keep to themselves and play soldier all day…** :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Oh pu-_leeze_… And what, may I ask, are you basing your assertion on? Have you ever even _talked_ to someone involved with a citizen militia? Or are you basing your opinion on “media” accounts? ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/4 "2002-11-26T19:06:00Z")
Expanding on Friedo’s reply: The meaning of the term militia in the U.S. varies, depending on context. In can refer to: 1. The historical organizations of armed citizens, separate from the regular Army, that fought against the British in the Revolution. Later, these groups were available to resist foreign invasions or domestic rebellions, and AFAIK, have all evolved into either categories #2 or #3 below. 2. The present day organized armed forces of the various states, usually called the National Guard. Members of the National Guard are mostly part-time soldiers, unless called up by the governor. In recent history, this has taken place in the case of natural disaster, rioting which is beyond the capabilites of the police to handle, or other emergency such as 9/11. 3. All of the physically capable male citizens of military age in a state. This concept has a legal basis in at least some states, but is of little or no modern-day relevance. 4. Private groups, usually armed, with no government links. I’m no expert on these. Most seem to have anti-government beliefs, ranging from reasonably coherent conspiracy theories. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/5 "2002-11-26T19:10:45Z")
If the OP is asking about the state-affiliated (or at least condoned) militias of the US south during the height of the civil rights era, that’s something completely different. Several states had them with Miss.'s being the most notorious. They gathered information on civil rights activists, organized actions against them (including murder), etc. The existence of such groups, their memberships and their activities was kept under wraps for the most part until the late '80s and it still has been just a slow trickle of info. A very dark side of the US for many decades. **Crafter\_Man**. If you have any concrete and verifiable information indicating that the extremely widely held view of current militia groups is in any way being misrepresented, please feel free to start a thread in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/6 "2002-11-26T19:34:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: > Oh pu-_leeze_… And what, may I ask, are you basing your assertion on? Have you ever even _talked_ to someone involved with a citizen militia? Or are you basing your opinion on “media” accounts? \*\* Um, I’m _in_ a citizen militia, **Crafter** , specifically the first kind I mentioned in my OP, so yes. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/7 "2002-11-26T19:39:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ftg \* > **Crafter\_Man**. If you have any concrete and verifiable information indicating that the extremely widely held view of current militia groups is in any way being misrepresented, please feel free to start a thread in Great Debates. Friedo asserted citizen militias are _ **usually** _ aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, etc. (emphasis added). Since this is **GQ** , I assume he has: a) a convincing basis for this assertion, or b) strong evidence or experience to lead one to such a conclusion. I would simply like to see him support his statement. (Note that I am not looking for a “cite” or “demonstrative proof,” as such does not exist. But in the spirit of GQ, I think anyone making such a sweeping claim should at least attempt to back up their claim.) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/8 "2002-11-26T19:50:02Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Random \* \*\* 1. The present day organized armed forces of the various states, usually called the National Guard. Members of the National Guard are mostly part-time soldiers, unless called up by the governor. In recent history, this has taken place in the case of natural disaster, rioting which is beyond the capabilites of the police to handle, or other emergency such as 9/11. 2. All of the physically capable male citizens of military age in a state. This concept has a legal basis in at least some states, but is of little or no modern-day relevance. You are certainly right about Item Three, all men of certain ages are defined in US Code as the Unorganized Militia of the United States. A forgotten legalism. On Item Two you are slightly mistaken. The National Guard (and Air Guard) are not the State Militas of an earlier era. (Although most outfits still carry the colors of those old regiments.) The Milita is (in several of the United States at least) a third-tier of military force run by the states exclusively. In Maryland (for example, my birthplace) it is little more than a few retired guys at the Military Department, but in theory they are the nucelus of a Maryland Army to be used in the state for state purposes. The Militia does not meet federal training or equipment requirments (as the Gurad must). Again a historic relic. I thought the organ used in Mississippi was somehitng called the Soverty Commission. I certainly could be wrong on that however. ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/9 "2002-11-26T20:00:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crafter\_Man \* > \*\*Friedo asserted citizen militias are _ **usually** _ aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, etc. (emphasis added). \*\* No he didn’t. He said that “groups of nutballs who have some guns and form small groups with the eventual goal of taking over the country” are usually aligned with white nationalists and neo-nazis. He specifically separated those from productive citizen militias. Or do you define ‘citizen militia’ as a group of nutballs aiming to take over the country? ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/10 "2002-11-26T20:01:31Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Crafter\_Man_ > **Friedo asserted citizen militias are usually aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, etc. (emphasis added). Since this is GQ, I assume he has: a) a convincing basis for this assertion, or b) strong evidence or experience to lead one to such a conclusion. I would simply like to see him support his statement. (Note that I am not looking for a “cite” or “demonstrative proof,” as such does not exist. But in the spirit of GQ, I think anyone making such a sweeping claim should at least attempt to back up their claim.)** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*Also, there are groups of nutballs who have some guns and form small groups with the eventual goal of taking over the country. These people are usually aligned with white nationalists, neo-nazis, and other nefarious organizations. Often they keep to themselves and play soldier all day, but occasionally you’ll hear about the ATF raiding these militia compounds and seizing illegal weapons, and so forth. \*\* **Crafter\_Man** , this is the whole paragraph that you excerpted from above. **friedo** did not make such a claim about ‘citizen militias,’ as you claim, but about ‘groups of nutballs…with the eventual goal of taking over the country.’ Which of these groups are you defending? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/11 "2002-11-26T20:18:00Z")
To add to my point, the [New York State Constitution](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?co=0) says in Article XII: > [@](#): > > The defense and protection of the state and of the United > States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature > shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the mainte- > nance and regulation of an organized militia. The specific legislation that deals with New York’s militia is [Chapter 36](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=63) of the New York State Consolidated Laws, which defines the militia thusly: > [@](#): > > ``` > Sec. 2. Militia of the state; division and composition. > > ``` > > 1. The militia of the state shall be divided into the organized > militia, the state reserve list, the state retired list and the > unorganized militia. The organized militia shall be composed of > the New York army national guard; the New York air national > guard; the inactive national guard; the New York naval militia; > the New York guard whenever such a state force shall be duly > organized and such additional forces as may be created by the > governor. > 2. **The unorganized militia shall consist of all able-bodied > male residents of the state between the ages of seventeen and > forty-five who are not serving in any force of the organized > militia or who are not on the state reserve list or the state > retired list** and who are or who have declared their intention to > become citizens of the United States, subject, however, to such > exemptions from military duty as are created by the laws of the > United States. This is similar to the state militia that most states in the US have, and by virtue of being an armed able-bodied male I am part of the latter group. I have not heard of any non-state sanctioned militia groups that were not nutballs. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/12 "2002-11-26T20:33:44Z")
Here’s the official page of the [Virginia Defense Force](http://www.virginiadefenseforce.org/home). You can see [here](http://www.virginiadefenseforce.org/mission_and_authority/) that > [@](#): > > The militia of the Commonwealth of Virginia shall consist of all able-bodied citizens of this Commonwealth and all other able-bodied persons resident in this Commonwealth who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, who are at least sixteen years of age and, except as hereinafter provided, not more than fifty-five years of age. The militia shall be divided into four classes, the National Guard, which includes the Army National Guard and the Air National Guard, the Virginia State Defense Force, the naval militia, and the unorganized militia And that page also offers a quote from 32 U.S.C. Sec. 109, which states: > [@](#): > > © In addition to its National Guard, if any, a State or Territory, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, or the District of Columbia may, as provided by its laws, organize and maintain defense forces. A defense force established under this section may be used within the jurisdiction concerned, as its chief executive (or commanding general in the case of the District of Columbia) considers necessary, but it may not be called, ordered, or drafted into the armed forces. > > (d) A member of a defense force established under subsection © is not, because of that membership, exempt from service in the armed forces, nor is he entitled to pay, allowances, subsistence, transportation, or medical care or treatment, from funds of the United States. > > (e) A person may not become a member of a defense force established under subsection © if he is a member of a reserve component of the armed forces. Okay, okay. I just wanted to bury the weekend warrior end of the answer under some code. Now, can we _please_ talk about the lunatics and who started calling them “militias,” how long such organizations have been around, their intentions, and their numbers? I’m curious to know such things, and I have a suspicion that’s what the OP wanted as well. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/13 "2002-11-26T20:38:31Z")
[The militia movement](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/06/20/militia-usat.htm), R.I.P. Militias (of the non-state-sanctioned variety) are what happens when people take talk radio and/or Ayn Rand a little too seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/14 "2002-11-26T20:40:49Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Paul in Saudi \* \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Random \* > \*\* > > 1. The present day organized armed forces of the various states, usually called the National Guard. Members of the National Guard are mostly part-time soldiers, unless called up by the governor. In recent history, this has taken place in the case of natural disaster, rioting which is beyond the capabilites of the police to handle, or other emergency such as 9/11. > > 2. All of the physically capable male citizens of military age in a state. This concept has a legal basis in at least some states, but is of little or no modern-day relevance. > > You are certainly right about Item Three, all men of certain ages are defined in US Code as the Unorganized Militia of the United States. A forgotten legalism. > > On Item Two you are slightly mistaken. The National Guard (and Air Guard) are not the State Militas of an earlier era. (Although most outfits still carry the colors of those old regiments.) The Milita is (in several of the United States at least) a third-tier of military force run by the states exclusively. > > In Maryland (for example, my birthplace) it is little more than a few retired guys at the Military Department, but in theory they are the nucelus of a Maryland Army to be used in the state for state purposes. The Militia does not meet federal training or equipment requirments (as the Gurad must). Again a historic relic. > > I thought the organ used in Mississippi was somehitng called the Soverty Commission. I certainly could be wrong on that however. \*\* I’m not sure I follow your point about the (organized) state militia and the National Guard. If you’re saying that they are two different things, I disagree, at least in my state (Illinois). By Illinois statute, the organized militia is the Illinois National Guard. 20 ILCS 1805/5. If you’re saying that the organized militia/National Guard now is in part under Federal control, I agree, although I don’t know much about the extent of that control, and don’t have time to research it today. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/15 "2002-11-26T20:42:16Z")
[A history of the militia movement](http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/Militia_M.asp). ---
**Author:** ![Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/57b2e6/32.png) [@Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Random)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/16 "2002-11-26T20:45:53Z")
My first reply should have concluded: “…ranging from the reasonably coherent to bizarre conspiracy theories.” ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/17 "2002-11-26T21:12:53Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not sure I follow your point about the (organized) state militia and the National Guard. If you’re saying that they are two different things, I disagree, at least in my state (Illinois). By Illinois statute, the organized militia is the Illinois National Guard. 20 ILCS 1805/5. That may be true in Illinois, but the point is some states maintain militia seperate from the National Guard. In my above cited statute from New York, the organized militia includes the National Guard, as well as the [New York Naval Militia](http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/nynm/nynavmil.html) and the [New York Guard](http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/nyg/nyg.html), which are controlled entirely by the state, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/18 "2002-11-26T21:43:30Z")
Do the neo nazis really think they’ll ever get support from the outright majority? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/19 "2002-11-26T21:45:42Z")
sorry for the hijack ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912/20 "2002-11-26T21:46:24Z")
You have to be pretty crazy to be a neo-nazi to begin with, so I imagine so. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-militias-all-about-in-the-us/138912.md?page=2)