# What are the Occupiers up to?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [April 27, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117 "2012-04-27T12:24:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/61 "2012-05-01T15:43:45Z")
[City-by-city guide.](http://occupywallst.org/article/may-day/)
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/62 "2012-05-01T16:52:46Z")
The Dow is up \> 100 pts, so the market approves!
---
### Author:  [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/63 "2012-05-04T16:21:29Z")
> [@What\_the](#):
>
> Time Mag included them among the Persons of the Year didn’t they? What does that say about them…or the rag itself, then?
>
> I could be wrong…as with the 100 Most Influential in the World I just looked at the pictures. How would you assign the Occupier’s credit for being part of that designation relative to the Middle East Protesters or even the Tea Baggers who the Occupiers were compared to by many (still are). They should get some points for starting it.
Since the thread is a bit stale… I’m really curious re your takes on how big an influence the Occupiers were on the Person of the Year award.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2012, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/64 "2012-05-04T17:02:28Z")
> [@What\_the](#):
>
> Since the thread is a bit stale… I’m really curious re your takes on how big an influence the Occupiers were on the Person of the Year award.
Big, I should think, since they were in the news at the end of the year, when the nominations were being considered. It’s the same with the Academy Awards, or so I’ve read.
---
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/65 "2012-05-13T19:33:19Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> They were a non-factor in the primaries, have no known major candidates in the general election, and again no organization and no money. They don’t even have a coherent agenda. They are impotent as a political force.
I agree with Oakminster for once.
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Meanwhile, the Occupy folks have managed to…camp in parks. They have no organization, no money, and no influence with anybody that matters.
Well, one of the points of social democracy generally is that _everyone_ matters. Apparently OWS has utterly failed to convey this simple message. We can add that to the ridiculous insistence of Occupy Oakland that “direct action” somehow does not entail getting your own people in office.
After all the bluster, the GOP will retain the House and most state legislatures this year, because the dippy libertarians who run the occupations completely wasted the nation’s populist anger. Almost as if it was planned that way.
Nah, what the left needs is a strong Communist Party to balance the GOP, our “Capitalist Party.” The Democratic Party aren’t even sure they’re social democrats.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/66 "2012-05-13T19:43:56Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> After all the bluster, the GOP will retain the House and most state legislatures this year, because the dippy libertarians who run the occupations . . .
Never heard them called **that** before. Don’t recall no Ron Paul or LP signs.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/67 "2012-05-13T20:11:16Z")
Libertarians? Seems like everybody who doesn’t like OWS projects a different Betty Noyer. They’re all just a bunch of spoiled college kids! (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything!) They’re all just aging hippies and their LSD-mutated grandchildren. Violent mindless anarchists!
Its an experiment, and experiments usually don’t work, but you learn something. For years and years, progressives have tried to play the game, but the game is Republican Poker: they get seven cards, you get five, all yours are dealt face up and they get to draw twice. Conservatives love rules and authority and organization, they get total wood just thinking about it (or whatever the female equivalent of “wood” may be, but I’m not going there).
"You have no program! No agenda! No spokesmen! No fundraising begging money from rich folks! "
You’re right, we don’t. And maybe that’s stupid. But what if it isn’t?
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/68 "2012-05-13T20:42:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Its an experiment, and experiments usually don’t work, but you learn something.
Experiments **always** work. The **point** is that you learn something, regardless of whether the results are the expected results or not. That’s how it is in science, anyway.
---
### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/69 "2012-05-13T20:57:18Z")
> [@What\_the](#):
>
> Time Mag included them among the Persons of the Year didn’t they? What does that say about them…or the rag itself, then?
>
> I could be wrong…as with the 100 Most Influential in the World I just looked at the pictures. How would you assign the Occupier’s credit for being part of that designation relative to the Middle East Protesters or even the Tea Baggers who the Occupiers were compared to by many (still are). They should get some points for starting it.
Any list in a newsmagazine is by definition a list of 100 people who have made news in the last year. It doesn’t need to signify anything more than that, and in fact it doesn’t.
---
### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/70 "2012-05-13T21:12:55Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> "You have no program! No agenda! No spokesmen! No fundraising begging money from rich folks! "
>
> You’re right, we don’t. And maybe that’s stupid. But what if it isn’t?
Depends on if you ever want to actually accomplish anything, or just bitch and moan. Like it or not, the system is what it is. Without organization, a coherent agenda, and money, you’re just pissing in the wind. You can break out the tye-dye, occupy some remote hillside, and sing about buying the world a Coke…or you can learn to play the game.
---
### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/71 "2012-05-13T22:33:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Depends on if you ever want to actually accomplish anything, or just bitch and moan. Like it or not, the system is what it is. Without organization, a coherent agenda, and money, you’re just pissing in the wind. You can break out the tye-dye, occupy some remote hillside, and sing about buying the world a Coke…or you can learn to play the game.
I mostly agree with you. Utopianism is a dead end, albeit one that has some attraction to the young and soft left. There are some caveats:
1. Phase 1 of Occupy was a success, as it refocused attention on Wall Street Reform and the vast manipulation of the legislative process by the 0.1%. Roughly speaking, once Oakland got involved, they started circling the drain.
2. There is _some_ scope for newish techniques, due to social networking. Coordinating people within region and across regions has become immeasurably easier. So crowdsourcing is plausible.
3. The 99%/the 1% is a useful meme, which is electorally relevant.
4. There are plenty of Occupiers who haven’t fallen into the Utopian trap. Occupy the SEC is good example.
5. Not having an agenda permits you to evade some traps. Sort of like avoiding bad ref calls by never entering the playing field.
But yes, it’s May and in Occupy WS looks irrelevant to the 2012 elections. And there’s little sign that they will gear up in 2014, 2016. Pathetic, alas. There other activities are not irrelevant, though many of them are counterproductive.
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/72 "2012-05-13T22:55:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> …or you can learn to play the game.
Of course you want us to play the game,\*\* Oakie\*\*! You’re pretty sure we’ll lose.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/73 "2012-05-13T23:23:21Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Of course you want us to play the game,\*\* Oakie\*\*! You’re pretty sure we’ll lose.
That’s because we always end up trying to play baseball on a battlefield.
Maybe that should change.
And maybe the OWSers are trying to change it.
---
### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/74 "2012-05-14T00:06:28Z")
I think the New Right of the 1970s/1980s was quite a bit more effective electorally than the New Hippie Left of the 1960s/1970s. In fact the latter was probably counter-productive. And I think the reason is that the Righties would work the system. Remember that in the early days the funding was mostly via direct mail; the right wing foundations didn’t seriously gear up until the 1980s.
Boring letter writing campaigns and voter registration work. As **elucidator** has pointed out, Acorn punched way above their weight.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/75 "2012-05-14T00:14:28Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> As **elucidator** has pointed out, Acorn punched way above their weight.
Mebbeso, but what laid 'em out was dirty fighting with weighted gloves and indifferent refs.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/76 "2012-05-14T00:19:14Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#):
>
> Boring letter writing campaigns and voter registration work.
Joel Bleifuss of _In These Times_ [agrees:](http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/13090/lets_intervene_in_elections)
> [@](#):
>
> Some occupiers appreciate electoral strategy, like the In These Times contributor who is running in Northern California’s 2nd Congressional District. In one of his first reports for In These Times, Norman Solomon wrote: “Occupiers swiftly unpacked their camping gear, and settled in to make themselves comfortable. The main gate’s sign stating ‘Private Property – No Trespassing’ was quickly covered with one saying ‘The People’s Property.’ ”
>
> That was on August 8, 1977, when Solomon and his fellow protesters occupied the Trojan Nuclear Power Plant northwest of Portland, Ore. Solomon, one of 82 demonstrators arrested, wrote the article from jail.
>
> This insurgent Democrat is going up against two establishment liberals for the seat of retiring Rep. Lynn Woolsey, the former chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. In California’s new post-partisan election system, the top two vote getters in the June 5 primary (Democratic, Republican or Green) will go head-to-head in the general election. In the 2nd Congressional District, both candidates will be Democrats. Solomon is campaigning for the opportunity to challenge the current frontrunner, State Assemblyman Jared Huffman, who, after having taken campaign donations from Walmart and Pacific Gas & Electric, has fashioned himself as a pro-union and environmentalist Dem.
>
> As the weather warms up and the Occupiers adapt their strategies, they shouldn’t lose sight of important struggles being fought in the electoral arena by committed progressives like Solomon. While electoral politics cannot be the sole emphasis of Occupy, it would be a terrible mistake for this new progressive movement to simply cede the levers of the state to our enemies.
---
### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/77 "2012-05-14T00:34:09Z")
OWS was packed with Ron Paul followers, from what I heard. Don’t act so surprised.
I think it was an Orwellian project from Go. When the Right want something, they go to Washington and tell the slaves what to do. When the Left want something, they go in the streets and yell until they get over it, and get nothing. This is\* all according to plan.\*
---
### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/78 "2012-05-14T01:00:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> Of course you want us to play the game,\*\* Oakie\*\*! You’re pretty sure we’ll lose.
Obviously I want you to lose, but the only way you have a chance at winning is to play the game. Look at the Civil Rights movement for inspiration. They had marches and demonstrations, too…but they played the game, and won, despite long odds. They had organization, an agenda, and money. They won victories in legislatures and in court. They accomplished significant, lasting social change. In contrast, the Occupy folks seem to mostly be about hoping somebody, somewhere, somehow, does something but nobody knows who, what, when, where, or how. That ain’t gonna cut it. If you really want change, you have to make it happen within the system.
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/79 "2012-05-14T01:21:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#):
>
> Obviously I want you to lose, but the only way you have a chance at winning is to play the game. Look at the Civil Rights movement for inspiration. They had marches and demonstrations, too…but they played the game, and won, despite long odds. They had organization, an agenda, and money. They won victories in legislatures and in court.
But, none of that would have happened without the marches and demonstrations.
---
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [May 14, 2012, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117/80 "2012-05-14T01:27:20Z")
You gotta sing really loud if you want to end war and stuff.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117.md?page=3)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-occupiers-up-to/620117.md?page=5)