# What are the odds that the U.S. will default? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 29, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903 "2013-09-29T04:24:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/121 "2013-10-01T18:14:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Excuse me if I consider this a partisan lie, since Democrats have voted against debt ceiling increases before, including the President himself. They did not use the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/122 "2013-10-01T18:16:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So he voted against increasing the debt limit, but he really wanted to increase it, right? Doesn’t say much about his integrity then. His integrity is a separate issue. > [@](#): > > What about Democrats voting against (and defeating) debt limit increases in the 80s several times. Terrorism? If they put us at risk of default, then absolutely it was the political equivalent of terrorism. Did they? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/123 "2013-10-01T18:20:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If they put us at risk of default, then absolutely it was the political equivalent of terrorism. Did they? They defeated the debt ceiling increase, so yes, if no debt ceiling increase puts us at risk of default, then they put us at risk of default. Of course, they relented later - kinda like Republicans. Democrat terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/124 "2013-10-01T18:22:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They defeated the debt ceiling increase, so yes, if no debt ceiling increase puts us at risk of default, then they put us at risk of default. Of course, they relented later - kinda like Republicans. Democrat terrorists? Absolutely, if what you describe is true (I’m not familiar with those events). Political terrorism, and it should be unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/125 "2013-10-01T18:24:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Absolutely, if what you describe is true (I’m not familiar with those events). Political terrorism, and it should be unacceptable. It is indicative of the importance of such an event that you’re not familiar with them. And I posted a link to those events upthread. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/126 "2013-10-01T18:26:53Z")
I love that this is the new GOP talking point: threatening default is OK because we’re never _really_ going to do it. That is, after all, the only way to defend the action to the public, since only a select few Tea Party idiots actually think default is a good idea. The only problem is that the threat itself is also damaging, as we learned last time they did this. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/127 "2013-10-01T18:28:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is indicative of the importance of such an event that you’re not familiar with them. And I posted a link to those events upthread. You’re welcome. I’m glad we’re agreed that threatening debt default is the equivalent of political terrorism. Good for you for coming to the conclusion that the Republicans should never engage in this tactic because it hurts the country. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/128 "2013-10-01T18:29:32Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I love that this is the new GOP talking point: threatening default is OK because we’re never _really_ going to do it. No, that’s a Democrat talking point about the so-called “political terrorism” that they used to indulge in. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/129 "2013-10-01T18:32:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m glad we’re agreed that threatening debt default is the equivalent of political terrorism. I don’t agree, for the simple reason that the debt ceiling is set up to be approved or NOT approved. If it must only be approved, why is there a vote? But if you do think that it’s “political terrorism”, then there’s the evidence for you that both sides engage in it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/130 "2013-10-01T18:34:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t agree, for the simple reason that the debt ceiling is set up to be approved or NOT approved. If it must only be approved, why is there a vote? Because of stupid political calculations. Whether to pay government bills _that have already been spent_ should not be up for debate. The debt ceiling is a useless and counter-productive relic of idiot politics. If you want to cut spending and cut the debt, than actually cut spending and pay off the debt. The debt ceiling does nothing but risk the full faith and credit of our country. > [@](#): > > But if you do think that it’s “political terrorism”, then there’s the evidence for you that both sides engage in it. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/131 "2013-10-01T18:38:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Because of stupid political calculations. Whether to pay government bills _that have already been spent_ should not be up for debate. The debt ceiling is a useless and counter-productive relic of idiot politics. I will answer you the way Obamabots do about ACA: “It’s the law. Live with it.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/132 "2013-10-01T18:40:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I will answer you the way Obamabots do about ACA: “It’s the law. Live with it.” Why can’t your side try changing a law the old-fashioned way: by winning an election? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/133 "2013-10-01T18:42:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Why can’t your side try changing a law the old-fashioned way: by winning an election? If they can be called “my side” - they did. They hold a decisive majority in the House. So you (Democrats) don’t get to do whatever you want. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/134 "2013-10-01T18:44:21Z")
You know, things you want, like not having the country’s economy collapse and other liberal bullshit like that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/135 "2013-10-01T18:44:39Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If they can be called “my side” - they did. They hold a decisive majority in the House. So you (Democrats) don’t get to do whatever you want. Neither does the other side. But the Democrats can’t give in here, no matter what the demands are. Even if the “demands” were tiny, and something they supported. The tactic is illegitimate, and it must not be allowed to be used again. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/136 "2013-10-01T18:48:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Neither does the other side. But the Democrats can’t give in here, no matter what the demands are. Even if the “demands” were tiny, and something they supported. The tactic is illegitimate, and it must not be allowed to be used again. Again, the “principled” stand is a lie considering that Democrats considered the tactic legitimate when they used it when they voted down the debt ceiling. Or when Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling. The worst thing you can do to is back the man you’re fighting into a corner. Then it’s fight to the death. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/137 "2013-10-01T18:50:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, the “principled” stand is a lie considering that Democrats considered the tactic legitimate when they used it when they voted down the debt ceiling. Or when Obama voted against raising the debt ceiling. It doesn’t matter what the “principled” stand, the Democrats have no choice here. If they give in, they lose FOREVER, on every issue, unless they control both houses and the Presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/138 "2013-10-01T18:53:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t matter what the “principled” stand, the Democrats have no choice here. If they give in, they lose FOREVER, on every issue, unless they control both houses and the Presidency. Let me answer your hyperbole with another: … and if Republicans give in right now, they will be utterly humiliated and irrelevant FOREVER. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/139 "2013-10-01T19:16:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If they can be called “my side” - they did. They hold a decisive majority in the House. So you (Democrats) don’t get to do whatever you want. Personally, I would be embarrassed that Republicans failed to take the White House with an unemployment rate as high as it was; and how Republicans not only blew their opportunity to take the Senate by running terrible candidates is several states, not to mention that they actually lost seats in the Senate; and how Democratic candidates for the House actually got a million more votes than Republican candidates (guess you like that gerrymandering!)… But I see you’re just an optimistic guy who sees a silver lining in every cloud. Chalk November 2012 up as a win for Republicans! That’s the spirit! You can’t take many more victories like that, though! ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903/140 "2013-10-01T20:29:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … and if Republicans give in right now, they will be utterly humiliated and irrelevant FOREVER. This is the present reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-odds-that-the-u-s-will-default/669903.md?page=8)