# What are the oldest human-made artifacts to be essentially worthless? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 17, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086 "2012-03-17T23:06:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/1 "2012-03-17T23:06:07Z")
What are the oldest things humans made that still exist in such quantity that they’re of very little value (unless you do indeed find a greater fool)? To start out the thread, I’ll mention that certain Roman coins are available pretty cheap. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/2 "2012-03-17T23:35:33Z")
Arrowheads come to mind. Not necessarily worthless, but they seem to be found everywhere and not worth a whole lot. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/3 "2012-03-17T23:37:16Z")
Broken pieces of pottery? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/4 "2012-03-17T23:42:29Z")
I’d have to go with broken pottery as well, provided that it doesn’t have any interesting artwork/decoration on it, but possibly even then. Everyone made it and it’s everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/5 "2012-03-18T00:28:54Z")
There are any number of [Palaeolithic](http://www.harappa.com/rohri/28.html) [flint](http://www.antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/nisbet325/images/figure3big.jpg)workshops scattered over the planet. In these places the ground surface is literally covered with hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions, of stone tools in addition to cores, flakes, chippers and so forth. All produced by humans between 10 and 100 thousand years ago. And all utterly worthless. The sites themselves often have research value because the structure can provide information about changes in technology over time. But the artifacts themselves have no value whatsoever. If you picked the best one up and took it home, you’d be lucky to get a couple of bucks for it, if you could fine a buyer at all. Certainly never enough to cover the cost and time of collecting it. It is still a mystery why these sites were created. People can’t have actually been using the sheer volume of tools created in these workshops, which at some sites indicate that each man was making 5 or more tools each day. The most popular current theory is that it was a way for men to demonstrate to women that they \*could \*make tools, that they weren’t just stealing or trading for tools. To do that, they had to be making the tools almost constantly. IOW the production was basically a mating display, with the men showing off to the women. That explains why so many apparently perfectly functional tools were simply thrown into the trash with the cores and flakes: it was a boastful way of saying “I’m so good at this that I can afford to waste hours of work because the angle isn’t exactly perfect.” Whether that’s true or not, we don’t know, but it does seem to explain why so many artifacts were discarded in one place that they are now literally worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/6 "2012-03-18T00:33:46Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > I’d have to go with broken pottery as well, provided that it doesn’t have any interesting artwork/decoration on it, but possibly even then. Everyone made it and it’s everywhere. The flint workshops predate pottery by at least 60, 000 years. So they win by a large margin. If we are allowing “broken stuff” to count as an artifact, flint artifacts are also much more common. Some of these workshops contain millions of _tools_. If we assume that each tool produced ten chips, then there may be more “artifacts” at a single site than all the ancient pottery fragments ever found. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/7 "2012-03-18T03:10:24Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The most popular current theory is that it was a way for men to demonstrate to women that they \*could \*make tools, that they weren’t just stealing or trading for tools. To do that, they had to be making the tools almost constantly. IOW the production was basically a mating display, with the men showing off to the women. Hey baby! Wanna see my tool? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/8 "2012-03-18T04:22:56Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The flint workshops predate pottery by at least 60, 000 years. So they win by a large margin. > > If we are allowing “broken stuff” to count as an artifact, flint artifacts are also much more common. Some of these workshops contain millions of _tools_. If we assume that each tool produced ten chips, then there may be more “artifacts” at a single site than all the ancient pottery fragments ever found. Do you have a cite for a site with millions of tools? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/9 "2012-03-18T05:19:12Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Do you have a cite for a site with millions of tools? Well, you have to define “tool”. At any good flint-knapping site, each actual usable tool that ended up being used needed dozens and dozens of chips and broken half-made tools. this is called “debritage” Since each chip was made by the hand of man, it’s a “tool” and indeed they have their uses. At this site they said they found thousands: > **[Flint workshop west of wadi Racham](https://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=26216)** > > Ancient Mine, Quarry or other Industry in Israel At the Flint Ridge site in Ohio, they found thousands of pits and quarries many of which had thousands of debritage. At The Hopewell site they found over _8000 chert discs_- let alone other tools. It was described as “thousands and thousands”. At this site: [http://www.socotra.info/russian-archaeological-expedition-in-socotra.php](http://www.socotra.info/russian-archaeological-expedition-in-socotra.php) they simply said “thousands of artifacts”. Finally at this site they found yes, \*\*Millions \*\*of flint artifacts. > **[Neolithic Flint Mines at Spiennes (Mons)](https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1006)** > > The Neolithic flint mines at Spiennes, covering more than 100 ha, are the largest and earliest concentration of ancient mines in Europe. They are also remarkable for the diversity of technological solutions used for ... You know, maybe you could just Google it next time, eh? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/10 "2012-03-18T10:47:25Z")
**DrDeth** , slight quibble, that first link is from the PPNB, hardly very old. Ditto for the Hopewell and Michelsberg cultures. These are all industrial-level manufacturing, post-Palaeolithic sites. The only Palaeolithic (which is what Blake was referencing when he said “millions”) site you cited was the one that said “thousands”. Doesn’t mean I doubt such exists, just that your cite doesn’t support it. Stone tools are tricky, though - you can go back to _pre_-human hominins and still find large assemblages where individual pieces are so numerous as to be essentially worthless. 1.7 -2 Million years in the case of the Sterkfontein Oldowan complex, for instance, or **DrDeth** ’s last cite. Outside tools, I’d say ostrich eggshell beads are so common as to be worthless, especially from South and East African sites (not familiar with North African & Israeli sites that also record them). ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/11 "2012-03-18T11:04:26Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Stone tools are tricky, though - you can go back to _pre_-human hominins and still find large assemblages where individual pieces are so numerous as to be essentially worthless. Heck, you can pick up any piece of limestone and find artifacts made by pre-human species that go back a billion years that are utterly worthless. 😃 But the OP asked for the oldest human-made artifacts. The oldest worthless human stone tools I know of are from sites ~100 thousand years, but that may just be because before that we can’t be sure that the tools are being made by humans. So I guess your real point is that the oldest worthless human-made artifacts are probably the same age as old as the oldest human. How old that is remains a matter of contention. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/12 "2012-03-18T11:17:45Z")
I should have remembered arrowheads and other stone tools but, really, the sheer volume is impressive. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/13 "2012-03-18T13:10:24Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > So I guess your real point is that the oldest worthless human-made artifacts are probably the same age as old as the oldest human. How old that is remains a matter of contention. Yep, that’s it exactly. ETA: slight nitpick, though: > [@](#): > > Heck, you can pick up any piece of limestone and find artifacts made by pre-human species that go back a billion years No, you can’t. Archaeological artifacts are definitionally “something made or given shape by humans” (as opposed to stuff like biofacts (unaltered animal bones even with kill/butcher markings) and manuports (stuff carried by people but unaltered)) ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/14 "2012-03-18T16:04:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Finally at this site they found yes, \*\*Millions \*\*of flint artifacts. > [Neolithic Flint Mines at Spiennes (Mons) - UNESCO World Heritage Centre](http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1006) > > You know, maybe you could just Google it next time, eh? Your cite says: > [@](#): > > Currently the site appears on the surface as a large area of meadows and fields strewn with millions of scraps of worked flint. Scraps of worked flint aren’t tools. ---
**Author:** ![Number](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/number/32/242_2.png) [@Number](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Number)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/15 "2012-03-18T19:17:39Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Do you have a cite for a site with millions of tools? Facebook? ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/16 "2012-03-18T19:26:06Z")
> [@Number](#): > > Facebook? …for the win! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/17 "2012-03-18T19:41:45Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Your cite says: > > Scraps of worked flint aren’t tools. Read my post again:\*Well, you have to define “tool”. At any good flint-knapping site, each actual usable tool that ended up being used needed dozens and dozens of chips and broken half-made tools. this is called “debritage” Since each chip was made by the hand of man, it’s a “tool” and indeed they have their uses. \* Don’t try to save face by quibbling. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/18 "2012-03-18T19:44:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > **DrDeth** , slight quibble, that first link is from the PPNB, hardly very old. Ditto for the Hopewell and Michelsberg cultures. These are all industrial-level manufacturing, post-Palaeolithic sites. The only Palaeolithic (which is what Blake was referencing when he said “millions”) site you cited was the one that said “thousands”. Doesn’t mean I doubt such exists, just that your cite doesn’t support it. > > Stone tools are tricky, though - you can go back to _pre_-human hominins and still find large assemblages where individual pieces are so numerous as to be essentially worthless. 1.7 -2 Million years in the case of the Sterkfontein Oldowan complex, for instance, or **DrDeth** ’s last cite. True. But they are still pretty old and at least one is extremely old and qualifies. In fact as you said, some of those sites can be considered PRE-human (depends on ones definition of “human”, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/19 "2012-03-18T22:31:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > ETA: slight nitpick, though: > No, you can’t. Archaeological artifacts are definitionally “something made or given shape by humans” (as opposed to stuff like biofacts (unaltered animal bones even with kill/butcher markings) and manuports (stuff carried by people but unaltered)) Which take us right back round again. If pre-human constructions aren’t artifects, then they aren’t artifacts, no matter how recently they were made. And if they are artefacts, then they are artifacts, no matter how long ago they were made. > [@Number](#): > > Facebook? Ohhhh, brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086/20 "2012-03-19T02:33:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Read my post again:\*Well, you have to define “tool”. At any good flint-knapping site, each actual usable tool that ended up being used needed dozens and dozens of chips and broken half-made tools. this is called “debritage” Since each chip was made by the hand of man, it’s a “tool” and indeed they have their uses. \* > > Don’t try to save face by quibbling. Read his post. He differentiates between tools and chips. It’s a fantastic claim, and since he’s been back without a cite, I guess this is just another case of him making shit up. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-oldest-human-made-artifacts-to-be-essentially-worthless/616086.md?page=2)