# What are the origins of the Book of Mormon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084 "2002-10-13T13:45:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Beastal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Beastal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastal)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/1 "2002-10-13T13:45:31Z")
? ---
**Author:** ![PosterChild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e274bd/32.png) [@PosterChild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PosterChild)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/2 "2002-10-13T14:42:37Z")
IANAM so you’ll get a better explanation soon, but Joseph Smith in 1880ish received a revelation from G-d. It or subsequent revelations led him to metal (Gold? Bronze?) tablets which Jesus left after he visited the Americas (post resurrection in Jerusalem) with the final text of his message. JS transcribed them into what became the Book of Mormon. The original tablets have been lost to history. PC ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/3 "2002-10-13T15:11:32Z")
Joe Smith made it up. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/4 "2002-10-13T17:02:19Z")
From [www.mormon.org](http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1090-1,00.html) > [@](#): > > The Book of Mormon is another witness that Jesus Christ really lived, that He was and is God’s Son. It contains the writings of ancient prophets. One of these, Lehi, lived in Jerusalem around 600 B.C. God commanded Lehi to lead a small group of people to the American continent. There they became a great civilization. > > God continued to call prophets among these people. The Book of Mormon is a collection of the writings of their prophets and record keepers. It is named after Mormon, one of the last of these ancient prophets. > > These prophets knew about Heavenly Father’s plan for His children and the mission of Jesus Christ. They recorded that Christ appeared, after His Resurrection, to the people in America, taught them His gospel, and formed His Church among them. The book contains the teachings of Jesus Christ, testifying of His Atonement and His love. It supports and verifies the Bible. > > The Book of Mormon concludes with a great promise that those who read it and sincerely pray about it can know by the Holy Ghost that it is true (Moroni 10:4). Regarding the [Translation of the Book of Mormon](http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1293-1,00.html) > [@](#): > > In September 1823, Joseph Smith was visited by a heavenly messenger named Moroni, in the same way that angels often appeared to Church leaders in the New Testament (see especially the book of Acts). He informed Joseph that God had a work for him to do. Moroni told Joseph that a record of the ancient inhabitants of the American continent was buried in a nearby hill and that the record contained the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. > > In September 1827, Joseph received the record, which was written on thin plates of gold. We now know it was not uncommon for people from the era of ancient America to keep records on metal plates. Joseph translated the book into English by the inspiration of God. The book is called the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. It is named after Mormon, an ancient prophet who compiled the sacred record. The book verifies, as another testament of Christ, the reality and divinity of Jesus Christ. It is, then, a second witness that affirms the truth of the Bible. > > The Book of Mormon was published in 1830. Since that time it has blessed the lives of millions of people through its powerful message about Jesus Christ and His gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/5 "2002-10-13T20:09:22Z")
So, UR; how’s it feel to be in the same company as NewtonsApple and partly\_warmer? ---
**Author:** ![partly\_warmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@partly\_warmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/partly_warmer)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2002, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/6 "2002-10-13T21:06:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*So, UR; how’s it feel to be in the same company as NewtonsApple and partly\_warmer? \*\* Yeah, be careful! Here’s another sample of the company you’ll be keeping: [www.catholic.com/library/Problems\_with\_the\_Book\_of\_Mormon.asp](http://www.catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp) "There are other problems with the Book of Mormon. For example, critics of Mormonism have shown convincing proof that the Book of Mormon is a synthesis of earlier works (written by other men), of the vivid imaginings of Joseph Smith, and of simple plagiarisms of the King James Bible. The only Bible that Joseph Smith relied on was the King James Version. This translation was based on a good but imperfect set of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of the Bible. Scholars now know the Textus Receptus contains errors, which means the King James Version contains errors. The problem for Mormons is that these exact same errors show up in the Book of Mormon. It seems reasonable to assume that since Smith was a prophet of God and was translating the Book of Mormon under divine inspiration, he would have known about the errors found in the King James Version and would have corrected them for when passages from the King James Version appeared in the Book of Mormon. But the errors went in." ---
**Author:** ![vance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3be4f8/32.png) [@vance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vance)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/7 "2002-10-14T11:43:03Z")
So how do secular people ‘explain’ Joe finding the tablets? Seems like a big coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/8 "2002-10-14T13:53:38Z")
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, vance, but if you mean that Holy Joe “found” the tablets, hence Divine Gift, then to my knowledge, no one else ever saw them (save God and Moroni[_snicker_]). So according to the Mormons, there is no contradiction or coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/9 "2002-10-14T15:10:00Z")
You display your ignorance with that “_snicker_” comment, smiling bandit. Try to keep up. From the Testimony of Three Witnesses: > [@](#): > > …That we, throught the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, h ave seen the plates… Those three witnesses were: Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris. From the Testimony of Eight Witnesses: > [@](#): > > …That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this owrk, has shown unto us the plates of which hat been spoken, which have the appeaance of gold… The eight witnesses were: Christian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jun., John Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith, Sen., Hyrum Smith, and Samuel H. Smith. So, to my knowledge, eleven other people have testified they have seen the original plates. ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/10 "2002-10-14T17:24:18Z")
Ultimately, it comes down to faith. Religious issues generally do. As noted above, much is made by the Church of Latter Day Saints of the testimony of three witnesses, Cowdery, Whitmer and Harris that they saw the plates. Not much mention is made of the fact that the three later dissembled, saying that they didn’t “see” them in the conventional sense but, cryptically, “saw them with the eyes of faith”. Following the initial publication of the Book of Mormon, a woman claimed that her late husband had produced a fictional tract about Christ visiting the new world. She said that the manuscript had been left at the printer’s where Joseph SMith Jr. claimed to translate the plates, viewing them through the Umim and Thumim, or “sacred peep stones” which permitted him to see the inscriptions rendered into English. The Umim and Thumim (I admit I’m not sure if I have the proper spelling) are usually figured by non-Mormons to have been ornamental breast plates worn by the high priest of the temple in Jerusalem. While making his translation, Smith apparently spoked spontaneously. Some have taken this as proof of the miraculous nature of the Book of Mormon, and some have taken it as proof that he was simply reading from a manuscript. Perhaps neither interpretation is correct. When in the right frame of mind, a variety of people inclduing poets reciting epics, Calypson singers and people claiming to channel from spirits can compose spontaneously with an amazing facility. Julian Jaynes made some observations about this in The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. Another sacred text which came into Smith’s possession, The Scroll of Abraham, was not taken back to heaven. In a remarkable show of faith, The Church of Latter Day Saints lent it to Harvard University, which ended up keeping it for several decades. Scholars there were unswerving in their conclusion. The scroll, which Smith had claimed to translate as a heretofore sacred text, was, in fact, just a scrapbook of sorts pasted together from pieces of a comparatiely late copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. One portion of the manuscript had been pasted in upside down. The Church later issued a statement saying that the true nature of the scroll was irrelevant, as God could cause Joseph Smith Jr. to be inspired to read a new sacred text out of anything. And I guess they’r right. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/11 "2002-10-14T17:35:19Z")
The head of the Mormon church is called a “prophet, seer, and revelator”-to me this implies that this guy has a direct line to god. As such, is he capable of speaking correctly? He ought to be able to correct those issues with the BoM, has he issued an encyclical (or whatever the mormons call it)? I find it puzzling that the mormon church spent a lot of dough, buying bogus letters and documents form Mark Hoffman-shouldn’t the chief prophet have known that these (the Hoffman letters) were in fact forgeries? Kinda makes the “prophet” title a tad dubious! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2002, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/12 "2002-10-14T20:08:23Z")
You realize, slipster, that now I’ll never be able to read the Book of Mormon outloud without doing so in a Calypso beat. Thanks! {I kind of like the thought.} ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/13 "2002-10-16T00:21:49Z")
A point which has not been addressed yet: some of the witnesses who said Smith showed them the tablets only saw them while they were wrapped in a tablecloth. That is, they saw Smith with a tablecloth and he assured them it contained gold tablets. That they were gold–or tablets at all–was taken on faith. Again: it comes down to faith. (My apologies for the shockingly bad typing in my last posting. I really do need to get more sleep.) ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2002, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-origins-of-the-book-of-mormon/132084/14 "2002-10-16T00:24:45Z")
Since both prevailing theories of the origin of the Book of Mormon appear here, there’s no further reason to keep the thread open.