# What are "The Proms"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923 "2006-03-11T07:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/1 "2006-03-11T07:36:56Z")
Recently on an arts channel in the United States, I had a glimpse of what was billed as “The Last Night of the Proms.” In various part of Britain, Edward Elgar’s _Pomp and Circumstance_ was being played by orchestras and the crowds were on their feet and waving flags of all sorts. What was being observed or celebrated? It looked like fun to me. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/2 "2006-03-11T07:43:30Z")
[BBC Proms - Events - BBC](http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/) and [BBC Proms - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Proms) It’s a long and long-established classical music festival. Apart from the last night, it’s all normal (if wide-ranging) concerts, including many top orchestras and soloists, and lots of performances by the BBC’s various ensembles. One of the guiding principles has always been accessibility - hundreds of tickets in the standing areas are only sold on the day, for a few quid, and queuing up for these during the afternoon is part of the tradition. The ‘Last Night’ has all sorts of other silly & outdated/cherished\* traditions, including a set routine of repertoire. In recent years, they’ve done the live links you saw to other parts of the country, with the regional BBC orchestras putting on their own performances beforehand. _(_ Delete as applicable to your opinion 😉 )\* ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/3 "2006-03-11T08:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Edward Elgar’s _Pomp and Circumstance_ was being played by orchestras and the crowds were on their feet and waving flags of all sorts. [/QUOTE] Just adding: _Pomp and Circumstance_ is the tune to an English patriotic song, _Land of Hope and Glory_, which explains why the flags were waving right then. It isn’t universally considered a cue to start looking for the young folks in their caps and gowns. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/4 "2006-03-11T08:42:43Z")
Thanks, you two! I think the States need to import the tradition! > [@](#): > > It isn’t universally considered a cue to start looking for the young folks in their caps and gowns. I kind of guessed that, but I certainly get misty-eyed thinking about the Class of '61 whenever I hear it. (sigh) **GorillaMan** , I’m off to check your links now. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/5 "2006-03-11T08:54:15Z")
My goodness, it starts on Bastille Day? The links make it sound even better than I had imagined. Leave it to the Brits to have to “tone down” their somewhat serious music to keep it from being quite such a good time . (I followed the wikipedia link to another link on “the last night of the proms.”) ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/6 "2006-03-11T09:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=flodnak] _Pomp and Circumstance_ […] isn’t universally considered a cue to start looking for the young folks in their caps and gowns. [/QUOTE] I was puzzled by this remark and did a bit of Googling - it seems that the “Land of Hope and Glory” tune is “virtually synonymous with school graduation exercises in North America” ([link](http://www.elgar.org/3pomp-b.htm)). Didn’t know that. Here, it is not just _a_ patriotic song, it’s the unofficial English national anthem (“God Save the Queen” being the national anthem of the whole UK, not just England). For example, you sometimes hear it played when a sports team representing England takes the field. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/7 "2006-03-11T10:40:15Z")
one might emphasize that the ‘Last Night’ is rather untypical of the season as a whole. It’s one of the few times in the year when the British do the whole flag-waving patriotism thing which we normally find rather distasteful, whilst neutralising it by adding as an aside “by the way, we don’t really mean it”. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/8 "2006-03-11T12:51:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] one might emphasize that the ‘Last Night’ is rather untypical of the season as a whole. It’s one of the few times in the year when the British do the whole flag-waving patriotism thing which we normally find rather distasteful, whilst neutralising it by adding as an aside “by the way, we don’t really mean it”. [/QUOTE] It is becoming even less nationalistic. You see South African, Australian, New Zealand and US flags quite commonly. Last year I saw a Jamaican flag. Some wag a few years ago was waving a UN light blue flag. As said above, the ‘patriotism’ is about as tongue in cheek as it can get- there is a certain campness to the whole thing. I who would have nothing to do with singing the national anthem or undue ceremony or royalist kow-towing, would happily wave a union flag at the Last Night without thinking I was breaking any personal moral code! And anyway, the sea shanties always make me cry! ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/9 "2006-03-11T14:30:22Z")
The BBC has always had a very close association with the Proms. It broadcasts every concert of the season on its classical-music radio station (Radio 3) and some concerts are also televised. The concerts are also streamed over the net, and some are broadcast on the BBC World Service . ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/10 "2006-03-11T21:30:04Z")
Pomp and Circumstance always makes me think of [Donald Duck](http://animated-features.tripod.com/features/fantasia2k/pomp/pomp.htm). 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/11 "2006-03-11T22:08:09Z")
**Pjen** , I did wonder if I was about to catch another country in the act of being patriotic. All in fun, eh? I’m with you on sea shanties. Even though I’m landlocked, I think I must have been an old salt in another life. **Rayne Man** , I will be looking for the concerts on the net and on BBC America in mid-July. Thanks! Actually, the first one is on my birthday. Easy to remember. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/12 "2006-03-11T22:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] **Rayne Man** , I will be looking for the concerts on the net and on BBC America in mid-July. Thanks! [/QUOTE] When I mentioned the BBC World Service , I was talking about their world-wide radio station. I don’t know if these concerts will be broadcast on the BBC America TV channel, but you can live in hope. Here is some more about [the history of the proms](http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/aboutfestival/history.shtml) , and why the BBC is so closely identified with them. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/13 "2006-03-11T22:55:47Z")
I sang in a performance of Mahler’s 8th Symphony at one of the Proms concerts in 2002. It was a fantastic experience. I’ll never forget it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/14 "2006-03-11T23:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Usram] I was puzzled by this remark and did a bit of Googling - it seems that the “Land of Hope and Glory” tune is “virtually synonymous with school graduation exercises in North America” ([link](http://www.elgar.org/3pomp-b.htm)). Didn’t know that. Here, it is not just _a_ patriotic song, it’s the unofficial English national anthem (“God Save the Queen” being the national anthem of the whole UK, not just England). For example, you sometimes hear it played when a sports team representing England takes the field. [/QUOTE] On the other hand, the first time I saw the Last Night of the Proms, my first thought was, “Wait, there are _words_ to Pomp and Circumstance?” My _only_ experience with that music was during graduation exercises. And I think that first Last Night of the Proms that I saw was the 2001 concert, held only days after September 11, 2001. It was quite emotional. If they’d only release the concert on DVD, I’d buy it. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/15 "2006-03-12T00:57:02Z")
[Creepy Last-Night-of-the-Proms-related trivioid](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Ride_in_a_Fast_Machine) … If there is a shadowy global conspiracy controlling everything, they must _really_ hate John Adams. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-proms/347923/16 "2006-03-12T03:12:56Z")
[QUOTE=Mk VII] the whole flag-waving patriotism thing which we normally find rather distasteful [/QUOTE] ☹