What are the realistic chances for Republican's in 2008?

But which Republican candidate would benefit from being annointed Vice-President?

Maybe you haven’t noticed, but Bush is not doing so well, approval-wise. This is why no one from Bush’s administration is one of the candidates. Of course, it’s traditional for the VP to run, the only trouble is that Cheney’s health is extremely poor (a fully-stocked ambulance travels with him wherever he goes, which turns out to be convenient if you also accidentally shoot your buddy in the face), plus he’s even more unpopular than Bush.

So it comes down to, how does it benefit a candidate to be annointed by Bush? And how does it benefit Bush to annoint one of the candidates? If there were one standout candidate then uniting behind that candidate would make sense, but even so what good does being annointed VP do? Plus there’s the slight problem that any VP appointment would need to be confirmed by Congress, which is now in the hands of the Democrats. And if the Democratic leadership couldn’t turn such confirmation hearings into an anti-Bush circus then I guess they really aren’t interested in running the country after all.

How about the fact that after she left the White House a former employee was ordered to risk jail time and ignore a Congressional subpoena and she obeyed the order.

The main strike against Hillary is that most of the GOP base has a visceral reaction to her. They don’t care what she stands for, as they hate her guts. The other thing I see eventually biting her is the fact that she IS the consummate politician, saying whatever is needed to get the audience’s approval. Obama can trounce her on that point simply because he doesn’t have the long political history that Hillary does, and hence can present himself as more “principled”.

Well, the reaction didn’t come out of nowhere. She does have positions that were way out of line with the country back in 93. The country has moved left towards her since then, but it has not come all the way. If she had come fresh onto the scene I agree that she would have avoided a great deal of grief.

There is a poll on Yahoo! asking ‘Would you vote for Arnold?’…60% of the people who took it (whoever they are) said ‘yes’. :smiley:

-XT

It all depends if The 1% are still behind the Republicans or not. Even in the current climate, the GOP could make a serious run for it as long as they have the media by their side. What they lack in, well, everything, they more than make up for by having MSNBC, CNN, FOX, and major newspapers in the trenches fighting their battles, crafting their image, defining the issues, and introducing the language to confuse the common man.

Currently, they’re doing everything in their power to make sure Edwards has no chance. They seem to be lining up behind Mrs. Clinton for the nomination. If that carries over to the general, the GOP doesn’t have a chance. It could well be a blow out. But if the right retains their media friends I’d watch for another nail biter.

The thing about Mrs. Clinton is that, yes, she has huge negative polling which could potentially energize the right but also the GOP has nothing left to throw at her. They’ve tried every trick in the book and the electorate has pretty much seen it all and she’s still there, moving forward, grabbing great swathes of the valuable middle. Whereas someone like Obama is a fresh face and everything would be new and potentially devastating if not handled correctly.

Another point to think about, although I doubt this will make much of a difference in the end, is that large numbers of liberals might end up sitting this one out. It doesn’t matter for me since I live in Indiana, but I can’t imagine waking up one day and having to decide to muster the energy to go decide a race between Hillary Clinton and Giuliani. Honestly, sometimes I think it might be healthier in the long run to have another 8 years of GOP rule instead of voting in another DLCer…

Only about half. Without even the remotest claim to unbiased observation, it does seem as though the Pubbies are none too thrilled about either (a) their prospects or (a) their candidates. Romney looks like he was carved out of mayonaisse and Thompson out of suet. The gush of civic euphoria and pandemic man-crush over Fred Thompson was more about apathy than enthusiasm. None of the candidates has any genuine gravitas, and about as much charisma as a day old tuna salad sandwhich. Its these sort of situations that arouse desperation in the ranks, an furious urge to Do Something Big to Change Everything.

I think this is Newts angle. He is expecting to be begged to run, as he coyly feigns reluctance, the little bitch. He already has the qualities the other candidates are trying to manufacture. The base is comfortable with him, if not thrilled to pieces and don’t have to be sold on accepting him they only have to be sold on *enthusiastic * acceptance, whereas the other guys haven’t gotten to first base yet.

How much of a shot has he got? Not so much, probably, but still in the realm of sorta-kinda maybe. The only thing wierder than lefty American politics is the rest of American politics. Shit happens, bet on it. Hazard a prediction? I’d say it’ll be Romney, the risk taking emotion will run its course and they’ll settle on the the least risky candidate, the squeeky clean, well coiffed cipher with the square jaw and the squarest outlook.

The base, deprived of red meat, will shrug en masse, and he will get creamed. Richardson, Edwards, Obama, Hillary, or Richardson, he gets creamed.

Giuliani has the most realistic shot of any of the GOP candidates. After that, Mitt Romney might have a slight chance of winning.

McCain and Fred Thompson have IMO, no chance of winning.

In general, there’s no reason that any Republican candidate is in an untenable position just because President Bush is unpopular; history has shown that Presidential elections do not always mirror the success of the party in which the candidate is currently in prior to said election (meaning–just because a party is unpopular doesn’t mean a candidate can’t win election.)

Until there is an actual nominee from both parties I find speculation to be mostly pointless, history has also shown no amount of polling this far out is meaningful.

Really? What does Rudy have besides being the mayor of NY on 9/11?

Or the Pubbies are in danger of being hoist on their own retard.

  1. What positions? Surely you’re not talking about health care? :dubious:

  2. :rolleyes: “The country has moved left towards her”? The country has moved left way past her. Hillary is the most center-right of the leading candidates. She’s a member of the Democratic Leadership Council, the corporate-owned wing of the party, for Og’s sake! It amazes me how many have bought into the inexplicable meme that she’s “liberal.”

You really believe that America has moved left of Hillary? Seriously? What do you base this on BG?

-XT

Articles, polls and studies linked in this thread.

And the first response in your cited thread (I love the way you do this all the time):

While I think the Republican’s have jumped the shark, at least WRT to the 2008 presidential election, I think your assertion that the US has moved left of Hillary (who I concede IS pretty much a centrist) is wishful thinking on your part. Because people are identifying themselves more with Dems than Pubs these days doesn’t indicated, to me at least, that there has been a fundamental shift of that magnitude (from supposedly right of center to definitely left of center) in so short a period. If you want to assert that the US has moved from right of center to somewhere around the middle I’ll buy THAT however.

-XT

As long as nobody looks too closely, that and a lot of “I’ll stand up to the Islamofascists” blather might well be enough to win the nomination, given how weak a field this is.

You look at each guy in turn, and say, “he can’t win the nomination. No way.” But somebody’s going to win; they’re not going to decide to just not run a candidate next year. (Though maybe they should consider it!)

A Republican favors tax breaks for the suits so they can have more money. The Democrats favors tax breaks for suits so they will hire more workers.

Romney can do the same thing, and he hasn’t been divorced or supported abortion.

Didn’t he have a pro-choice record as governor?

Man, this is a tough race to call.

First off, you have to give the Democrats the natural advantage, because Bush and the Republicans in Congress have totally discredited themselves.

That said, the Democrats are working damned hard to discredit themselves now that they control Congress, and they may overtake the Republicans in this regard by the time the election rolls around. I can’t believe how freaking incompetent they’ve been. Congressional approval has dropped 10 points since the Republicans lost power, and they were booted out because the people didn’t like them. Amazing. All the Democrats had to do was follow through with their ‘good government’ reforms and act like adults, and they’d be in the driver’s seat now. Instead, they keep shooting themselves in the foot. They’re angering both their own base, moderates, and Republicans. This is not an easy feat, but they’re doing it.

So at this point, Democrats have the advantage in the ‘who do you trust’ department, but it’s rapidly eroding.

Then there are the wild cards: Iraq, and a 3rd party candidacy. If Iraq starts to look successful, or even as thought it’s getting better, it’s going to defuse that issue to some degree. Already, public support for the war has climbed 10 percentage points in the past few months (still well below 50%, though). Or, the Democrats could be successful in forcing a rapid pullout, which could cause the region to erupt in flames and bite them in the ass. Or they could succeed in a pullout, and everything gets better, and Iraq stops being an electoral issue. None of this is good for the Democrats. Their smartest play would have been to make sure that the Republicans continued owning the war. But their base won’t let them do that.

A third party candidate could pull votes from one side or the other. A Bloomberg candidacy would almost certainly hurt Hillary. Having two liberal candidates from New York can’t do anything but split votes between them. And there’s still time for someone on the right to kick off a 3rd party candidacy.

Taking all that off the table, it comes down to electoral politics and the candidates themselves. If Guliani is the Republican nominee, can he carry New York for the Republicans? If he can, that’s a huge advantage. But I doubt it. And if he can’t, he’s a liability because he makes it less likely that the Republicans can lock up the south, and they need the south.

Plus, I remember all too well that Guliani was a very damaged mayor by the end of his second term. The longer you see him in action, the less you tend to like him. He’s abrasive, and like others said, he has skeletons in his closet. His best chance (really his only chance) is to successful play the ‘leadership in the face of terror’ card. Expect to see that video of him walking through the rubble in New York over and over and over again… The thing is, I’m not sure how much traction that has with voters any more. 9/11 is receding into the background as the years go by without another attack.

Mitt Romney should be a great candidate. The buzz around him started when he managed the Olympics in Salt Lake City and by all accounts did a superlative job. He’s been highly successful in business and government. He’s good looking, and speaks well. But the Mormon thing… I don’t know. I honestly don’t know if he can overcome that. Also, I think independents and Democrats (and some Republicans like me) are getting really tired of the religious right and their opposition to everything from abortion to stem cell research. His wife is into ‘alternative medicine’, seeks out holistic treatments for her multiple sclerosis. She’s a believer in ‘treatments’ like reflexology. So she’s a bit of a flake.

I think McCain is done. Too old, no natural constituency. He’s pissed off the right with his support of illegal immigration, and pissed off the left with his support of the war. He’s put himself in a corner I don’t think he can get out of.

I personally like Newt Gingrich as an idea man, but he’s not a good politician. Too abrasive, too unlikeable. Wickedly smart, though. So don’t count him out, but I think he’s a real longshot.

The only other possible candidate on the right as of today is Fred Thompson, and he’s a complete wild card. I have no idea what will happen when he formally announces, but it will be either a spectacular climb to the top of the pack or a spectacular fall. I don’t see him surviving as a middle-tier candidate with the likes of Brownback or Tancredo. He’s going for the long bomb.

On the Democrat side, you’ve got to go with either Hillary or Obama at this time. Hillary is a triangulating, professional politician who has a huge organization of professionals around her. She knows how to work her ass off. Obama has the ‘it’ factor. He’s a great speaker, he’s a fresh face, and he’s smart.

Hillary has some liabilities. Being from New York is one of them - normally it would be a ‘safe’ state, and you really want a candidate who can help carry a state that you normally wouldn’t be able to get. She’s also got high negatives, and has been known to lose her temper.

Obama’s big problem is youth and lack of experience. He’s less qualified to be President than Bush was. And he’s already shown it with some major gaffes.

Another big liability of the Democratic candidates is their wacky ‘base’. They’re farther out there than the Republican base is. And they’re militant. The danger is that to win the nomination the candidates need the base, and to get the base they’ll have to position themselves so far over on the left that the nominee will have a hell of a time clawing back to the center in the general election while remaining credible. John Kerry got nailed for exactly that - “I was against the war before I was for it. Now I’m against it again.” Trying to please everyone. The Republicans have the same problem, but I think the Democrats have it worse this year.

As of today, my best guess would be that Hillary wins the nomination and goes on to be the next President. But the error bars I’d put around that estimate are huge. Six months from now, the race could look completely different.

It was fatuous when John said it, and you have nothing of substance to add.