# What are the "six flags over Texas"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 21, 2002, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030 "2002-05-21T01:54:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/21 "2002-05-22T11:03:17Z")
brad: Would you agree that the nation under the Articles of Confederation and the nation under the Constitution are the same entity, but with a different government & governmental relationship to other entities within the agreements described in each document? I’d say that Texas, as an entity, came into the Union and thus, although now a state and no longer independent, is still the entity which entered the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/22 "2002-05-22T14:37:50Z")
Monty, the point I see being made is that the Republic of Texas was a _ **sovereign nation** _, as were Spain, France, Mexico, the USA, and the CSA. When it became the State of Texas, it ceased to be so. This is the critical distinction. The transition from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution is not a parallel case–the US was a sovereign nation under both. What I understand is that the six flags were chosen to represent sovereign nations. If there had not been a Republic of Texas, it would have been Five Flags Over Texas. ---
**Author:** ![lionel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@lionel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lionel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/23 "2002-05-22T14:42:12Z")
The state of Texas as it is now is actualy smaller than the Republic of Texas was before it was annexed by the US. Parts of West Texas were chopped off and are now parts of Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorodo, and maybe a couple of other states. If you go to [http://www.texasterritories.com/walldecor.asp](http://www.texasterritories.com/walldecor.asp) and scroll dowm a bit there is a replica map that shows how big Texas was. I don’t know what difference if any that makes to the argument about the government entity of Texas, but there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Maximino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@Mighty\_Maximino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Maximino)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/24 "2002-05-22T15:51:24Z")
Another odd thing is that the Republic of Texas actually had more international recognition than the CSA did. Also, that French claim was pretty tenuous. I guess “Four Flags, One Specious Claim, and a Potential Power that Got in the History Books as a Rebellion Over Texas” isn’t really as catchy. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/25 "2002-05-22T17:44:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SNenc \* > \*\* I’m not sure about this, but isn’t Texas technically known as the “Republic of Texas” much in the same way that Virginia is technically the “Commonwealth of Virginia”? > > I was in the Texas Capitol not too long ago (Nice place, Texans! But do ya have to have those tacky chandeliers in the chambers that spell TEXAS with little lights?), and in the underground annex,built very recently, I swore I saw a seal-type thing engraved in the floor that said “Republic of Texas” around the edge. > > I’m not sure if I’m right… just throwing information out there. \*\* The floor of the rotunda in the state capitol has six official seals on it. France, Spain, Mexico, CSA, and USA form a five-point star. In the center is a larger seal, with the Lone Star at its center and the words “Republic of Texas” around its rim. It is in homage to the years Texas was an independent nation. The official name for the Lone Star State is The State of Texas. Y’all come visit now, ya’ hear? ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/26 "2002-05-22T19:26:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SNenc \* > \*\* I’m not sure about this, but isn’t Texas technically known as the “Republic of Texas” much in the same way that Virginia is technically the “Commonwealth of Virginia”? > > I was in the Texas Capitol not too long ago (Nice place, Texans! But do ya have to have those tacky chandeliers in the chambers that spell TEXAS with little lights?), and in the underground annex,built very recently, I swore I saw a seal-type thing engraved in the floor that said “Republic of Texas” around the edge. > > I’m not sure if I’m right… just throwing information out there. \*\* The floor of the rotunda in the state capitol has six official seals on it. France, Spain, Mexico, CSA, and USA form a five-point star. In the center is a larger seal, with the Lone Star at its center and the words “Republic of Texas” around its rim. It is in homage to the years Texas was an independent nation. The official name for the Lone Star State is The State of Texas. Y’all come visit now, ya’ hear? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/27 "2002-05-22T20:46:09Z")
There’s a Six Flags Ohio now, too (formerly called Geauga Lake). I think that they’re counting the Indians pennant as one of the flags, there :D. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/28 "2002-05-22T21:26:25Z")
Brad, I totally agree with you here … the six flags refer to six independent nations, and it’s cheating for Georgia and other states to include their state flags in the six. However, to throw a wrench into the works, from a legal and constitutional standpoint under our federal system (and this is the point of a federal system), there are 51 sovereigns in the United States. Each state is considered a sovereign entity – indeed, that’s why we call them “states” instead of “provinces” or something else. So, Texas is still a sovereign entity, it’s just not an independent sovereign entity. Whew. I’d like to confirm – all the states of the United States are officially “State of X,” except for Massachusetts, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Kentucky, which are “Commonwealth of X.” The use of the word “commonwealth” in this context has no legal or constitutional significance and under the constitution and law, those four entities are states, not commonwealths (so it is, indeed, 50 states, and not 46 states and four commonwealths). Puerto Rico also uses “Commonwealth of …,” but its official category is “territory.” In short, “commonwealth” means nothing in U.S. law. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/29 "2002-05-22T22:05:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\* > The Bear Flag Republic lasted all of 25 days, and is really hard to justify as anything but a very short-lived provisional authority during the period between the collapse of Mexican rule and the establishment of US rule. They didn’t last long enough to issue money, set up a legislature or anything like that._\* Hey, now! 25 days is 25 days! Just because it didn’t have time to get its act together in 25 days doesn’t mean it wasn’t a republic. By analogy, a corporation is a valid legal entity at the time of its formation even though it may not have staplers, copy machines, or clients yet. EUREKA! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/30 "2002-05-23T17:25:32Z")
I forgot to mention the odd case of Rhode Island, whose official name is the State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations. Who knows. I’m surprised that the trendoids haven’t started referring to Rhode Island by the acronym “SRIPP.” Everything’s got to be initialized these days. ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/31 "2002-05-23T17:55:17Z")
I’m sorry, I followed the Republic of Vermont link (being a Vermonter by birth) and I just couldn’t let this line pass: > [@](#): > > a war with France in 1754 delayed a decision until 1764, when the King decided that all lands to the **west bank of the Connecticut River** were part of New York Vermont intifada! Drive the oppressive New Yorkers into Lake Erie! ---
**Author:** ![Pablito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@Pablito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pablito)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/32 "2002-05-23T18:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Acsenray \* > \*\*Brad, I totally agree with you here … the six flags refer to six independent nations, and it’s cheating for Georgia and other states to include their state flags in the six. \*\* \*\*Acsenray \*\*, you took the words right off of my keyboard! As an unreconstructed native Texan (living in SC now), this is exactly how I see the issue. Other states’ claims to such a distinction are cheating. : : walking around with a swagger and conceit : : ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2002, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/33 "2002-05-23T18:41:39Z")
God help me for taking a Texan’s side. (You don’t really need an Ohioan to stick up for you, eh?) ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/34 "2002-05-24T01:50:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > **However, to throw a wrench into the works, from a legal and constitutional standpoint under our federal system (and this is the point of a federal system), there are 51 sovereigns in the United States. Each state is considered a sovereign entity – indeed, that’s why we call them “states” instead of “provinces” or something else.** Believe me, that 51st territory, the one in which I live, is anything _but_ sovereign. :mad: **Drum God** , thanks for clarifying what it was that I saw… twice. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/35 "2002-05-24T13:19:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by acsenray \* > **\the six flags refer to six independent nations, and it’s cheating for Georgia and other states to include their state flags in the six.\** In case anyone didn’t already know this, the Six Flags franchise is just that: the name of the franchise. Therefore, when they opened up a franchise in Eureka, MO (down the road from St. Louis), they originally called it “Six Flags Over Mid-America,” those six flags being, IIRC, Illinois (Illinois being just across that river that’s about 45 miles from Eureka), Missouri, USA, France, Spain and England. By the early 90’s, most people had noticed that while this scheme lent itself to themed sections of the park, the “flags” relationship was at best stretching and at worst silly. Now the Eureka location is known as “Six Flags St. Louis.” And what with park expansion and all, there’s litlle relationship between the flags and the attractions/décor within different sections of the park. Incidentally, when the Six Flags corporation bought Marriott’s Great America in [some Chicago suburb], Illinois, they simply changed the name to “Six Flags Great America” and didn’t try to incorporate some sort-or flag schematic into it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2002, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/36 "2002-05-24T14:01:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Believe me, that 51st territory, the one in which I live, is anything but sovereign. I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick here. The 51 sovereigns are the 50 states plus the United States. I’m guessing you’re talking about the District of Columbia, which, yes, is not a sovereign entity. But that’s not the 51st entity I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![BrandonR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@BrandonR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrandonR)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030/37 "2002-05-30T06:26:09Z")
And on an interesting note, the park was originally going to be called something along the lines of “Texas under Six Flags” but Angus Wynne’s wife (creator) told him that Texas wasn’t under anything! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-six-flags-over-texas/110030.md?page=1)