# What are the two different types of Jews (ethnicity) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235 "2009-10-01T14:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Transistor\_Rhythm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Transistor\_Rhythm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Transistor_Rhythm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/1 "2009-10-01T14:33:17Z")
I’ve noticed that Jewish people tend to be physically split into two different camps when it comes to appearance. On one hand, you have the sort of classic jew stereotype of [Woody Allen](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_h-deqBh-OmA/Skx69QODREI/AAAAAAAAACc/eiYKJcNEZTA/s400/woody2.jpg), [the Coen Brothers](http://mentaldefective.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/coenbros.jpg), a [Rick Moranis](http://mundo47.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rick-moranis.jpg), or the fictional character [Barton Fink](http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/george-s-kaufman-totally-looks-like-barton-fink.jpg). On the other, there’s the more “wild-looking” camp with squintier eyes - a [Bill Maher](http://2.media.tumblr.com/SNVdrGpHTqs0duygF2TqPSGdo1_400.jpg), [Barbara Streisand](http://gc.astrology.com/gc/starstories/10371/barbara-streisand.jpg), a [Spielberg](http://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/steven_spielberg.gif), or a [Sarah Jessica Parker.](http://www.whyfame.com/gossip/2009/february/6/sarah_jessica_parker_and_acting_main_10097.jpg) What are these two different groups? What are their origins? Do they have specific names for the two different camps? I used to have two bosses, both jewish, who were one of each, and they used to joke about it. “Bill [of the second group] here’s spent some time in the desert, if you know what I mean,” to which Bill would reply, “Well, we can’t all be accountants and dentists” to the more Woody Allen-looking guy. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/2 "2009-10-01T15:05:39Z")
Historically, there have been two separate Jewish populations: the Ashkenazi who lived in Central and Eastern Europe, and the Sephardic who lived primarily around the Mediterranean. Basically, at some point each group went and settled in a different part of the world, with plenty of intermixing with local populations. These are admittedly very broad categories, and not as distinct in the modern age with all of the traveling that people do. Honestly, however, I have no idea if this corresponds to the differences you perceive. To me, \*both \*of the groups of celebrities you point out look like they probably have Eastern European ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/3 "2009-10-01T15:06:58Z")
Well, the first thing I thought of was Ashkenazik (sp?), which is the more Eastern European type, and Sephardic, which has been seen as more Mediterranean. However, I think all you named lean towards the Ashkenazik. (Btw, Bill Maher is just half-Jewish.) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/4 "2009-10-01T15:08:31Z")
[Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews](http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.ht) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/5 "2009-10-01T15:21:43Z")
> [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > I’ve noticed that Jewish people tend to be physically split into two different camps when it comes to appearance. On one hand, you have the sort of classic jew stereotype of [Woody Allen](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_h-deqBh-OmA/Skx69QODREI/AAAAAAAAACc/eiYKJcNEZTA/s400/woody2.jpg), [the Coen Brothers](http://mentaldefective.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/coenbros.jpg), a [Rick Moranis](http://mundo47.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/rick-moranis.jpg), or the fictional character [Barton Fink](http://totallylookslike.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/george-s-kaufman-totally-looks-like-barton-fink.jpg). > > On the other, there’s the more “wild-looking” camp with squintier eyes - a [Bill Maher](http://2.media.tumblr.com/SNVdrGpHTqs0duygF2TqPSGdo1_400.jpg), [Barbara Streisand](http://gc.astrology.com/gc/starstories/10371/barbara-streisand.jpg), a [Spielberg](http://thefilmstage.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/steven_spielberg.gif), or a [Sarah Jessica Parker.](http://www.whyfame.com/gossip/2009/february/6/sarah_jessica_parker_and_acting_main_10097.jpg) > > What are these two different groups? What are their origins? Do they have specific names for the two different camps? Please tell me this is some kind of joke. You’ve basically taken the dorkiest, most cliched stereotypes of Jews and you’re using these as the best examples of the type of classifications you’re talking about? “Wild looking?” How is the second group any more “wild looking” than the first group? Everyone you’ve mentioned is basically a standard Ashkenazic Jew of European descent (and none of them are very good-looking people.) And Bill Maher is only half-Jewish, as is Sarah Jessica Parker. All Jews are not dorks with big noses who look like Woody Allen. Your sample group is kind of unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/6 "2009-10-01T15:28:09Z")
Ditto what Argent Towers said. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/7 "2009-10-01T16:25:31Z")
If you go back 2,500 years Jews are the same ethnic group as Palestinians. Beyond that, no idea other than it’s a much studied group in DNA terms. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/8 "2009-10-01T16:47:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews](http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.ht) I couldn’t get this link to work. I just got this: > [@](#): > > File Not Found > The file name you entered was not found on this server. > In a moment, you will be taken to the Judaism 101 home page, > or you can click here to go to that page immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/9 "2009-10-01T17:01:04Z")
> **[Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)](https://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm)** > > Learn about the differences between Sephardic (Spanish/Middle Eastern) and Ashkenazic (German/Eastern European) Jews, and other cultural subgroups of Judaism. ETA: I agree with others that your examples make no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/10 "2009-10-01T17:04:14Z")
Well, there’s Wild Jews and Domesticated Jews … ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/11 "2009-10-01T17:18:51Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > If you go back 2,500 years Jews are the same ethnic group as Palestinians. Beyond that, no idea other than it’s a much studied group in DNA terms. Ok, well I just accidentally closed my long reply. I won’t rewrite it all. Short form: that’s kinda not really at all true. Palestinians are ethnically and culturally Arabs and identify as such - and there was no Palestine then. While there were no hard borders, Arab settlements were mostly in Jordan and Sinai. Arabs are a Semitic people, but thay would have been distinct tribes and smewhat different ethnicities. Arabs were not Jews, even leaving religion aside. However, there was no clear-cut concept of ethnicity then (or today for what matter). ---
**Author:** ![Transistor\_Rhythm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Transistor\_Rhythm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Transistor_Rhythm)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/12 "2009-10-01T17:34:16Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [Ashkenazic and Sephardic Jews - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)](http://www.jewfaq.org/ashkseph.htm) > > ETA: I agree with others that your examples make no sense. I don’t really understand this. I present two categories of people that look **completely** different almost to the point of looking like different races. Look at [Leonard Cohen](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/LeonardCohen1969.jpg), [Jason Schwartzmann](http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/030310/184716__jason_l.jpg)and [Matthew Broderick.](http://donkeybits.com/uploads/images/matthew_broderick.jpg) Now look at [Jennifer Aniston](http://celebrise.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/jennifer_aniston.jpg) and [Stephen Spielberg.](http://blog.grafik.com/Uploads/image/25_spielberg_lgl.jpg) It’s night and day! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/13 "2009-10-01T17:42:23Z")
> [@Transistor\_Rhythm](#): > > I don’t really understand this. I present two categories of people that look **completely** different almost to the point of looking like different races. Have you considered the possibility that your experience is misleading you? Because your examples don’t make any sense. **Argent Towers** is correct that you’re trafficking in stereotypes. There are different groups among people with Jewish ancestry, but there’s no connection between those groups and the people you are typing in your OP. By the way, John Turturro (Barton Fink) isn’t Jewish at all. Both his parents are Italian. He played a Jewish character, as many other Italians have done, because many people see both groups as “ethnic,” which is close enough for Hollywood’s purposes. Turturro achieved a brilliant simulacrum of Jewishness by wearing glasses and wearing a frizzy hairpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/14 "2009-10-01T17:42:56Z")
By the way, which of the two groups does Lenny Kravitz fit into? ---
**Author:** ![please921](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@please921](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/please921)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/15 "2009-10-01T17:46:57Z")
Are you sure it’s not just the glasses? I think you’re just seeing a normal variance among Ashkenazi Jews. For example, if someone hasn’t been exposed to Asians, he’s likely to think that “they all look alike”. However, once he studies their features a bit more, he will see that there are slight distinguishing variations among all of the individuals in that ethnic group. The impression I get is that now that you have the opportunity to sit and study Jewish faces, you are able to see the differences between them. Perhaps adding to your confusion is that you’ve heard of the fact that Jews can be split up into two different ethnicities, namely Ashkenazi and Sephardi, and you are trying to place these individuals into two different groups, even though they are all (to my knowledge) of Ashkenazi ancestry. Edited to Add: The people you place in the first group all have dark hair, while the people in the second group have light/gray hair. Perhaps that plays a part as well. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/16 "2009-10-01T17:52:21Z")
You do realize that there’s nothing remotely Jewish about Jennifer Aniston, and Broderick is only half Jewish? I present you instead with [Vladimir Putin](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Vladimir_Putin_official_portrait.jpg) and [Mikhail Gorbachev](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Gorbatschow_DR-Forum_129_b2.jpg) Night and day, eh? Individual variations within a single ethnic group can be as large as variations between different ones. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/17 "2009-10-01T17:52:46Z")
And how does[Optimus Prime](http://eighties-night.com/images/optimus-prime-is-jewish.jpg) fit into this schema? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/18 "2009-10-01T17:52:59Z")
Dude, Jennifer Aniston is Greek-Irish-Scottish. And I agree, I think your examples are strange. They don’t look that different (other than being different people, obviously). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/19 "2009-10-01T18:01:26Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Palestinians are ethnically and culturally Arabs and identify as such - and there was no Palestine then. While there were no hard borders, Arab settlements were mostly in Jordan and Sinai. Arabs are a Semitic people, but thay would have been distinct tribes and smewhat different ethnicities. Arabs were not Jews, even leaving religion aside. However, there was no clear-cut concept of ethnicity then (or today for what matter). You last sentence is factually incorrect. I think you may be using “ethnicity” incorrectly. An ethnos is a cultural group, with a common language, customs, usually religion, and, because of that, genetics. Naturally that eventually has an effect on appearance. In the ancient world, when cities were smaller and more of the population was rural, ethnicity was very clearly delineated, usually as a shorthand by language spoken or geography. Arabs and Jews share a related language, of course, so ultimately they would share a cultural ancestry, but that’s a few thousand years earlier than most people care about. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/20 "2009-10-01T18:08:18Z")
All Jews started out as your basic Semitic type, like the Arabs. Generally dark-skinned, dark-haired, hairy people with curly hair and Semitic facial features. When the Jews began the “diaspora” and migrated around the world, they went to different places. The Sephardic Jews lived in Arab countries and eventually Spain and Italy, therefore they look closer to what the “original” Jews probably looked like, i.e. dark. Jewish women were of course raped in these countries but they were raped by people who also came from Semitic origins, as well as some Moors and other dark people in Spain and Italy, and so they remained darker generally. The Ashkenazi Jews (and I always found it odd how that word contains the word “nazi”) traveled through Europe, and so their women were raped by Europeans. That is how DNA for light hair, light skin, blue eyes, and what have you, got into the bloodlines. I mean, look at my picture in my user profile - you are not going to see hair like that on a Semite from ancient Judea, even though I am 100 percent “ethnically” Jewish, there is obviously a majority of European genes in my background. So as a general rule Sephardic Jews look more like Arabs and Ashkenazi Jews look more like Europeans. But there are always going to be exceptions because so many different kinds of DNA mixed together over the past 2000 years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235.md?page=2)