# What are the two different types of Jews (ethnicity) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235 "2009-10-01T14:33:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/61 "2009-10-02T02:12:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In practice it usually means non-Jew, but it can mean [any non-member of a predominant religious group](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11619198&postcount=13). The real world for a non-Jew is _goy_. Hey, that’s me! The Mormons took the term from the bible, though, and I think the Mormons are the only group besides Jews to call non-members Gentiles. Basically, in Hebrew, “goy” means “nation”, or “tribe”, or “people”, and can be, and in the bible, is used to refer to the Israelites too. Abraham was promised he would be the father of a “goy gadol”, a great nation. In practice, though, it’s used to refer to “another nation” (Hebrew also uses the term “nokhri”, which means “stranger”. Anyway, when Jerome was translating the Christian bible into Latin, he translated the Hebrew word “goy” and the Greek word "ethnos"into the Latin word “gentilis”, which is Latin for “tribe” or “nation”, and that got turned in English into Gentile. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/62 "2009-10-02T02:50:37Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Also, in medieval Europe, it was illegal to convert from Christianity to Judaism, so that undoubtedly discouraged people. A capital crime, no less. Which is why, between 1000 and 1200 ([pdf cite](https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstream/handle/10207/10699/JJCS66-3-01.pdf)) an estimated 15,000 Christians moved from Europe to Muslim-ruled lands, where conversion from Christianity to Judaism was not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/63 "2009-10-02T03:56:47Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > Well, infidel for non-Muslim, heathen for non-Christian. The Arabic actually is [kafir](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir). The word, often translated as “infidel”, actually means one who “covers up” the truth of Allah, and traditionally did _not_ apply to Jews and Christians, who were instead referred to as [“People of the Book.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book) Kafir has _come_ to mean more all non-Muslims and to take on an exclusively pejorative cast. I thought all Bene Gesserit were Jewish - didn’t they found the Trilateral Commision? Or was that the Illuminati? (Don’t worry about me, I’ll just sit here and deal with the spice agony all by myself. Sure I may die, but don’t bother about me. You could though at least call. Would it kill you to pick up the phone to see if I’m dead yet?) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/64 "2009-10-02T04:35:52Z")
Am I the only person who found the Bene Gesserit [Reverend Mother Helen Gaius Mohiam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sianphillips_helengaiusmohiam.jpg) as portrayed by Sian Phillips in David Lynch’s _Dune_ to be sexually appealing? I found that her authoritativeness and intimidating aura of power were erotically enticing and I was able to overlook the bald spot on her head. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/65 "2009-10-02T04:51:07Z")
Also, the scene where she is testing Paul with the pain box thing is pretty overtly sexual. As she describes the burning sensation of the hand, she closes her eyes and begins to speak in an erotic tone of voice; then when Paul finally yells “the pain!”, she appears quite blatantly to have an orgasm. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/66 "2009-10-02T08:08:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > consensual sex happened occasionally, in the form of extramarital affairs, but it was also rare especially in countries where Jews lived in their own villages and not among the general population. Which wasn’t the case in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/67 "2009-10-02T11:39:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > First of all it happened much more than just in the wake of World War II. You realize that Jews have lived in Europe for about 2000 years, right? And throughout all of that time, there were massive military campaigns that swept across nations, carrying with them all manner of rape and pillage. This was no means limited to the Jews or anything; this pillaging and raping affected everybody who was unfortunate enough to be in its path. You are aware that rape was pretty much universal for any village or city which was sacked by enemy soldiers? And of course the Jews got it comparatively worse than others in certain areas, like in Eastern Europe, where there were systematic pogroms specifically targeting Jews for several hundred years, _in addition_ to the run of the mill pillaging by warbands which happened to towns of all ethnicities and religions? > > As for your second point about intermarriage increasing because of ghettoization, that doesn’t make sense. Did you meant to write “increased?” There were Jews who intermarried into Christian families but this would have been accompanied by a conversion to Christianity. There were not Christians converting to Judaism and intermarrying into Jewish families. There may have been one or two cases per hundred years, but otherwise this was unthinkable. Argent, I believe you are wrong about this theory. How long ago did you take these “classes”? I thought it’s now pretty well established that the reason that Jews in various areas of the world resemble the people around them (N. Europe, Spain, India, S. Africa, Ethiopia, etc. etc) is because the founder population was almost exclusively male. When they migrated to new areas as merchants they took local wives out of necessity. This idea is supported by genetic studies in several places that show a jewish male line of descent (by looking at the Y chromosome) and not so much in the female line (mitochondrial DNA). Most people in medieval times fled ahead of conflict. They didn’t hang around to be victimized. Also, re: WWII Rape was/is a crime in any army. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/68 "2009-10-03T09:06:37Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > The definition of Sephardim (Spaniards) as used in this thread is a massive oversimplification. At least in Israel, the term used is Mizrachim (Easterners). Some Mizrachim are Sephardim, but they’re probably a pretty small minority of the group as a whole. For instance, one of the largest Jewish populations in the world are the Persian Jews, who are Mizrachim, but having absolutely no connection to the Spanish Jews expelled in 1492, are not Sephardim. I wouldn’t say they’re a small minority, or a minority at all - the largest Mizrachi community are the Moroccan Jews, who are pretty much completely Sephardic; other major Sephardic-Mizrahi communities include the Algerians, the Tunisians, and the Syrians. The Iraqi Jews, historically one of the largest communities, are a mixture of the ancient Babylonian Jews and more recent Sephardic immigrants. Also, don’t forget the European Sephardic communities. These include the Balkan Jews (most prominently the Bulgarians and Greeks), the Turkish community, and the pre-19th Century Dutch and English Jews. Most outsiders know little to nothing of these proud congregations - perhaps the only European Sephardic Jew Americans have ever encountered is actor Hank Azaria, whose parents hail from Thessaloniki. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/69 "2009-10-03T13:35:21Z")
If one is interested in some of the diversity that is Jewish then [Kulanu](http://www.kulanu.org/about-kulanu/index.php) may be a good place to start. What the op illustrates is how biased America (including many American Jews) are in what a Jew is supposed to look like and be like. In truth we Jews are a pretty motley and diverse bunch ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/70 "2009-10-03T13:58:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > …perhaps the only European Sephardic Jew Americans have ever encountered is actor Hank Azaria, whose parents hail from Thessaloniki. That’s where my dad’s side of the family comes from. **DSeid,** we largely have Jews themselves, in Hollywood, to thank for the perpetuation of these unpleasant stereotypes. Films continue to feature extremely unappealing Jewish characters far more often than positive ones, in both the looks and behavior departments, despite Jews being involved in the production, direction and writing every step of the way. I think American Jews make fun of themselves a little too much, and that sometimes it can be outright self-hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/71 "2009-10-03T18:09:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Most outsiders know little to nothing of these proud congregations - perhaps the only European Sephardic Jew Americans have ever encountered is actor Hank Azaria, whose parents hail from Thessaloniki. And Neve Cambell, whose mother is Sephardic from the Netherlands. Her father isn’t Jewish, though. As for middle eastern Sephardim, the one that most Americans probably know is Paula Abdul, whose father was Lebanese and whose mother was Syrian-Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235/72 "2009-10-03T18:58:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I think American Jews make fun of themselves a little too much, and that sometimes it can be outright self-hatred. Harlan Ellison despises Mel Brooks for this reason. Or despis **ed** at least, based on essay I read of his in Harlan Ellison’s Watching, his collection of film criticism. Of course Harlan Ellison despises most forms of life, so that’s not saying much :p. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-the-two-different-types-of-jews-ethnicity/512235.md?page=3)