# What are these metal things on concrete benches **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 7, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500 "2025-12-07T20:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/41 "2025-12-08T16:43:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They are “entitled” by the fact that they exist, and have to be _somewhere._ And being homeless, they have no choice _but_ to be in those public spaces. They aren’t going to magically vanish because they are inconvenient or unsightly. They can’t be blamed fairly for something they have no choice in. If all they did was exist the hostility towards them would be minute’. But they lie across benches blocking anyone else from using them, vomit, urinate, and defecate in public, aggressive pan handling, theft, and so on. They are not entitled to that behavior any more than you or I. I deal with the homeless every single shift. It’s gotten worse. The judges are no longer issuing bench warrants for people not paying citation fines so the homeless have learned nothing will result from their despicable behavior. And don’t forget, the number 1 victims of criminal homeless acts are other homeless people. They routinely get robbed, battered, and sexually assaulted by other homeless. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/42 "2025-12-08T17:29:42Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > And the norm _was_ to allow people to sleep in peace overnight > > The problem with doing that is word gets around and pretty soon the place is inundated with homeless. Well, i lived there for 7 years, and during that time, you’d never have known people were sleeping there if you only used the station between 8am and midnight. Maybe even as late as 1am. Once i got used to it, i liked knowing it was kinda a satellite homeless shelter. Also, the subways are open to the public 24/7, so there isn’t any good way to exclude the homeless. I suppose you could make it physically harder to get in without paying the fare, but that’s still pretty cheap for overnight housing. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/43 "2025-12-08T17:43:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Well, i lived there for 7 years, and during that time, you’d never have known people were sleeping there if you only used the station between 8am and midnight. Maybe even as late as 1am. > > Once i got used to it, i liked knowing it was kinda a satellite homeless shelter And you wouldn’t know your spouse was cheating on you if you didn’t snoop through their phone. In other words, just because you ignore something doesn’t mean it’s something that should be ignored. Not everyone appreciates a “satellite homeless shelter”. Every single place I’ve dealt with like that eventually deteriorates into dreck. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/44 "2025-12-08T17:47:12Z")
Maybe it eventually deteriorated. But for at least 7 years, a bunch of homeless men had a clean place to sleep, out of the weather. That’s valuable. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/45 "2025-12-08T18:08:44Z")
You are more than likely unaware of the problems they caused during that time. Extra expense for cleaning services. Do you know how many police and fire calls were made due to fights and medical issues. No way in 7 years is the number low. What you call valuable comes at someone’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/46 "2025-12-08T18:27:07Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If all they did was exist the hostility towards them would be minute’. Oh, please; their simple existence _enrages_ a tremendous amount of people. Who spend a great deal of time and effort demonizing and persecuting the homeless to punish them for the sin of existing. Hatred of the poor is deeply baked into our society, and persecuting them an ancient practice. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/47 "2025-12-08T18:42:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another thing is that the hostile architecture like benches are uncomfortable to sit on. So everyone, not just the homeless, is discouraged from using it Yeah, this happened in a spot where I used to hang out. There were some water fountains bracketing a pedestrian walkway from one main road into a nice commercial area, and it was a great spot to sit and watch the world go by for a bit. This was in the late 90s, when “drum circles” were still a big thing, and most weekends, there was a group there playing drums, and letting anyone who wanted to try it play a bit. But someone hated that, so they installed a pointless small (less than a foot high) “fence” along the tops of the fountains, so you couldn’t sit any more. The place quickly became just another area to walk through as fast as possible. And it didn’t even really affect the worst of the homeless problems, because the homeless people had no problem just lying down on the ground. The only people they really drove away were the people who actually used it as a robust public space. Eventually they just got rid of the fountains too. No point in nice fountains no one can actually enjoy. Absolutely destroyed one of my favourite spots. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/48 "2025-12-08T19:26:52Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > If all they did was exist the hostility towards them would be minute’. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Hatred of the poor is deeply baked into our society, and persecuting them an ancient practice. Both of you can be right here. But anyway, returning to the discouragement of skateboarders (and scooters for that matter), there are many video examples of what can go wrong by not discouraging them, and yeah, aside from maiming themselves, there is the whole lawsuit risk thing that I suspect municipalities seek to mitigate. The metal pegs and such are a cheap and easy way to do just that, without physically altering the setting enough to make it unusable to others. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/49 "2025-12-08T19:55:45Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > What do they expect the homeless to do? Go…_home_? I think it is better to throw in a few extra benches that everyone is comfortable on, rather than make every bench a torture device. > [@pkbites](#): > > You are more than likely unaware of the problems they caused during that time. Extra expense for cleaning services. Sure. But what is better to have public restrooms that need to be cleaned, or none, so that they defecate in the elevators etc, which are 10 times more difficult and expensive to clean? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/50 "2025-12-08T20:38:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > You are more than likely unaware of the problems they caused during that time. Extra expense for cleaning services. > > Sure. But what is better to have public restrooms that need to be cleaned, or none, so that they defecate in the elevators etc, which are 10 times more difficult and expensive to clean? This was benches used as “housing” in a subway station. But yes, I’m sure it cost something. At a minimum, it cost the time of the police officer who turned the lights back on in the morning every day. And no doubt there were other costs. But i commuted and used that strain nearly every weekday, and by rush hour there was no sign (except a faint odor of unwashed human bodies lingering on some of the benches) that anyone had been there. And it wasn’t uncommon for me to arrive early enough to see the cop clearing them out, and i never saw anything that needed active cleaning. So there wasn’t some massive cost. And homeless shelters are freaking expensive. This removed the need for a dozen or two beds in a shelter. (Or for those people to sleep on the street, where they would have been both exposed to weather and frankly, much more in the way of the other residents of the city.) Letting them sleep there added a modest cost to space that was otherwise underutilized. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/51 "2025-12-08T20:40:29Z")
Hostile architecture isn’t just about keeping people off of structures. There are whole categories of ways to make architecture hostile to roosting birds (whose poop damages concrete, as well as being a health hazard to humans.) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/52 "2025-12-08T20:57:51Z")
The homeless who have to live it, the neighbors who have to live with it, cops and social workers who have to deal with it, city officials who have no real solutions. I begin to believe that the only people who could effect on it don’t do anything since they aren’t affected by it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/53 "2025-12-08T21:18:35Z")
Behave. That’s all I’m getting at. There’s nothing about being homeless that requires anyone to not use the bathroom like a civilized person or not get garbage everywhere. That’s the issue - homeless behavior is so poor that hostile architecture is employed to prevent the worst excesses in favor of people who actually function properly in public spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/54 "2025-12-08T21:20:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > a faint odor of unwashed human bodies Isn’t that the default smell of New York City? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/55 "2025-12-08T21:20:30Z")
Both the homeless and not-homeless need access to toilets when out and about town, so it would be nice if clean, safe facilities were available. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/56 "2025-12-08T21:25:52Z")
I would agree, but I don’t think the homeless deserve them more than anyone else who needs a public restroom. So if they can’t take care of it, then they shouldn’t be able to use it. That’s the root of the issue - some seem to have this idea that the homeless have a greater claim on public spaces by dint of their homelessness than people who take care of the public spaces and pay taxes, etc. I disagree. They’ve got the same right as everyone else right up until they behave poorly and lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/57 "2025-12-08T21:31:47Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I would agree, but I don’t think the homeless deserve them more than anyone else who needs a public restroom. I apologize, but I don’t think I was suggesting that. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/58 "2025-12-08T22:17:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. But what is better to have public restrooms that need to be cleaned, or none, so that they defecate in the elevators etc, which are 10 times more difficult and expensive to clean? Except even when there are restrooms available many of them will still urinate and defecate on the sidewalk. Or behind the very building the public restrooms are in. A lot of them live and behave like wild rabid pigs. This accounts for the disdain the productive members of society have for them. Most of them are not the genteel individuals some of you fantisize they are. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2025, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/59 "2025-12-08T23:42:48Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Except even when there are restrooms available many of them will still urinate and defecate on the sidewal cite? ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/60 "2025-12-09T02:51:25Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Behave. That’s all I’m getting at. > > There’s nothing about being homeless that requires anyone to not use the bathroom like a civilized person or not get garbage everywhere. > > That’s the issue - homeless behavior is so poor that hostile architecture is employed to prevent the worst excesses in favor of people who actually function properly in public spaces. The fact that [67% of unhoused people have mental health disorders](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2818774) might interfere with their ability to “behave”. mmm [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500.md?page=4)