# What are these metal things on concrete benches **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 7, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500 "2025-12-07T20:05:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/61 "2025-12-09T03:00:55Z")
Whose problem is that though? I don’t think that just because they’re mentally ill, it trumps a mother and small child’s right to use a clean bathroom in a library. Part of the problem is that the courts have put city governments in a no-win situation. They can’t restrict access from the obviously crazy, but nor can they compel them to be treated without serious hoops and effort either. So the seriously mentally ill just sort of do their thing and there’s not much governments can do about it, other than passive stuff like hostile architecture. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/62 "2025-12-09T03:31:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > There’s nothing about being homeless that requires anyone to not use the bathroom like a civilized person or not get garbage everywhere. Of course there is; the deliberate attempt to forbid them access to things like bathrooms in the first place. > [@bump](#): > > Whose problem is that though? I don’t think that just because they’re mentally ill, it trumps a mother and small child’s right to use a clean bathroom in a library. It’s _our_ problem, because the fact that they are both mental ill and without resources means that they can’t solve their own problems. And because we’ve spent decades _creating_ this entire situation. Punishing them for the crime of being poor and mentally ill solves nothing. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/63 "2025-12-09T03:36:56Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > Except even when there are restrooms available many of them will still urinate and defecate on the sidewal > > cite? My own eyes I deal with the homeless every night. There is a restroom inside just past the vestibule of the municipal building that’s open to the public and yet they’ll take a leak against the wall outside. If it was permissible I’d post the footage from the security camera we get every single day. But I know that somehow you’ll justify the behavior anyway.. We have a tech school that’s open to the public. Homeless will go in there and take a dump on the floor of the bathroom rather than the toilet. They’re inside the bathroom and still mess the floor. WTF? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/64 "2025-12-09T04:47:29Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > This was benches used as “housing” in a subway station. But yes, I’m sure it cost something. At a minimum, it cost the time of the police officer who turned the lights back on in the morning every day. And no doubt there were other costs. That was a nice gesture, for sure. Good idea. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Both the homeless and not-homeless need access to toilets when out and about town, so it would be nice if clean, safe facilities were available. Preach it Brother! > [@Melbourne](#): > > cite? I have seen nice dressed young men urinating in doorways in downtown San Jose- where there are bathrooms to be found. And some homeless- the hard case ones- some mentally ill or on drugs- or both, they have no concern for that sort of thing. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The fact that [67% of unhoused people have mental health disorders](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2818774) might interfere with their ability to “behave”. I kinda doubt that figure because when i was on the Commission in San Jose/Santa Clara County we found there were several types of homeless. The first, and the easier to deal with, were mostly single Moms, etc, who were one paycheck away from losing their apartment- and they lost that check. What we did for them is give them Interview clothes, an address to use , some job training, some help getting a job-and help with first/last months rent. That program was hugely sucessful. They accounted for almost half- but they werent living on the street- no, they were living in their cars or couch surfing, etc. They also had a few coupons for cheap visits to a local “doc in a box”. Then those with mental health or drug issues. Finally, a rather small group who preferred that lifestyle. > [@bump](#): > > Whose problem is that though? I don’t think that just because they’re mentally ill, it trumps a mother and small child’s right to use a clean bathroom in a library. Or a nice one outside, or whatever. > [@bump](#): > > Part of the problem is that the courts have put city governments in a no-win situation. They can’t restrict access from the obviously crazy, but nor can they compel them to be treated without serious hoops and effort either Before Reagan, we used to institutionalize those. Camarillo State Hospital, for example. Another example of GOP “cost cutting”- because the street living population is actually more expensive. Do you have any idea how much it cost the county or City to roll fire or Paramedics for sick street living men? ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/65 "2025-12-09T08:46:06Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Behave. That’s all I’m getting at. I assume you are not acquainted with mental illness? You want a schizophrenic to behave? In which way? I, myself have Wernike-Korsakov, so I am gradually losing my marbles, and I have been homeless. Fortunately not without resources to get back in place. “Behave” is an insult to those who are abandoned by society, and cannot “behave” because they do not have access to the appropriate care and medication. There is a homeless paranoid schizophrenic of my aquantaince for whom I occasionally buy food. He cannot “behave”, he is struggling in a very different reality to most people. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/66 "2025-12-09T09:33:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Those devices have been around for 20-25 years now that I know of. Back in the ‘90s the skateboarders I knew called them “Nazi knobs”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/67 "2025-12-09T13:13:27Z")
Then they need to be put somewhere that they can’t mess things up for everyone else. I don’t see a third option between “let them run free and mess stuff up” and “put them in a home somewhere” that doesn’t cost a ridiculous amount of money and resources, and have a questionable track record. Just because someone is mentally ill, that doesn’t give them a pass for all sorts of poor behavior, nor does it make it ok. It may explain it, but it neither excuses it nor makes it everyone else’s problem to deal with and endure. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/68 "2025-12-09T13:44:48Z")
I AM MENTALLY ILL. Not sure how to tell you without all caps. I have a brain disease that will inevitably kill me within the next ten years. I am sanguine to this, but man, I get angry when people trivialize mental illness. (If you have any interest, Google Wernike-Korsakov syndrome. It is not fun) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/69 "2025-12-09T14:19:21Z")
And not all homeless people are mentally ill, although there’s certainly a correlation. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/70 "2025-12-09T14:27:54Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Then they need to be put somewhere that they can’t mess things up for everyone else. I don’t see a third option between “let them run free and mess stuff up” and “put them in a home somewhere” that doesn’t cost a ridiculous amount of money and resources, and have a questionable track record. The issue is that, decades ago, the U.S. largely got rid of the “put them in a home somewhere,” option…or, the “home” became either “living on the streets” or “become incarcerated.” > **[How Reagan’s Decision to Close Mental Institutions Led to the Homelessness...](https://obrag.org/2023/04/how-reagans-decision-to-close-mental-institutions-led-to-the-homelessness-crisis/)** > > By Divya Kakaiya, Ph.D., M.S./ San Diego Union-Tribune Op-Ed / April 24, 2023 > > As a psychologist who began practicing nearly 40 years ago, I’ve seen a significant shift in the care of the mentally ill since the mid-1980s — and it hasn’t been for the... > **[Hard truths about deinstitutionalization, then and now](https://calmatters.org/commentary/2019/03/hard-truths-about-deinstitutionalization-then-and-now/)** > > Ronald Reagan and Jerry Brown, two of the most consequential governors ever in California, led the state during two of the most well intended but poorly executed movements in this state’s history. The first was the de-institutionalization of the... ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/71 "2025-12-09T16:19:54Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The issue is that, decades ago, the U.S. largely got rid of the “put them in a home somewhere,” option…or, the “home” became either “living on the streets” or “become incarcerated.” Part of the issue, as I understand it, is that many of the “homes” were pretty terrible. If we’re going to go back to that as an option, it needs to not be like that. Which wouldn’t be cheap; or easy, because I doubt the trained people exist in sufficient numbers to do the job right, to the extent that we even know what “right” is for each individual person in need of help. In the current political situation, I strongly suspect it would amount to locking people up in terrible conditions, for something that’s in no way their fault. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/72 "2025-12-09T16:41:15Z")
Said another way … 1. Compassion is expensive. 2. US society is extremely economically motivated and shortsightedly so. Therefore, public compassion will be largely absent. Which suggests that to change the outcome of my little sorta-syllogism, we need to significantly change one of the two inputs. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/73 "2025-12-09T17:10:11Z")
Also, people in the US care much more about their own needs than those of their community. Other countries have much stronger social support systems. Not only does that mean that there is more support for people in need, but the people themselves have a greater desire to help others. In the US, people are mostly concerned about getting stuff for themselves and feel that others should fend for themselves. If someone is homeless, we tend to think that it’s up to that person to fix their situation rather than depend on the state to support them. So if someone is at risk of losing their housing, we are likely to think that it’s up to that person to find cheaper housing or move to a place with a lower cost of living rather than have the state support them with subsidized housing. State funded mental institutions in the US are very likely to be of the barest necessity to keep them off the streets rather than designed with the goal of ensuring the patients have the highest quality of life possible. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/74 "2025-12-09T17:36:41Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > Also, people in the US care much more about their own needs than those of their community. Yep. I meant that but didn’t quite include it. If US society had a motto it’d be “Every man for himself!”. In many ways we are just an economy, not a society. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/75 "2025-12-09T21:27:51Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > “Every man for himself!”. Huh, I thought that was the central message of Buddhism. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/76 "2025-12-09T23:32:52Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Huh, I thought that was the central message of Buddhism I thought the central message of Buddhism had to do with suffering because you want things and learning to let go of the desires that cause suffering in order to achieve Nirvana, or something along those lines. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/77 "2025-12-09T23:35:09Z")
**Moderating** Since we have moved well beyond the original factual question and the topic has shifted to the homeless and hostile architecture, let’s move this to IMHO (from FQ). ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/78 "2025-12-09T23:38:34Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@pkbites](#): > > But I know that somehow you’ll justify the behavior anyway.. Attack the post, not the poster. No warning issued, but this post is especially out of place in FQ (which is where the thread was when this post was made). I will give you some leeway since this thread had moved well into IMHO territory before then, but stick to the facts in FQ. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/79 "2025-12-09T23:38:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Said another way … > > 1. Compassion is expensive. > 2. US society is extremely economically motivated and shortsightedly so. > > Therefore, public compassion will be largely absent. I’ll add #3: a large potion of the population considers compassion immoral, and cruelty moral. For them the fact that the poor are suffering isn’t a problem, it’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2025, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500/80 "2025-12-09T23:48:27Z")
Largly agree but there’s a popular intermediate case of: “Compassion must be earned. It doesn’t come _gratis_ simply by being human.” Of course conveniently few people beyond their immediate family ever earn any. Much cheaper that way. But they can claim to be supporting virtue, not vice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-metal-things-on-concrete-benches/1025500.md?page=5)