# What are these weird symbols in this church? Picture included.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 4, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594 "2015-06-04T01:11:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/1 "2015-06-04T01:11:04Z")
It is a Lutheran church, if that helps. They have a cross up on the wall in the back of the stage.
Anyway, around the cross are a bunch of tiny crosses. There appear to be 12 of them, so I thought they might indicate the disciples. Most importantly, one of them is different, which you can see in the picture. The symbol right of the base of the cross is like an “untied cross”, just a squiggly line.
What are these symbols and why is one different?
[Here is the picture. It doesn’t show all the symbols, but gets the main idea across.](http://i.imgur.com/AcPHwZn.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/2 "2015-06-04T02:11:39Z")
The disciples, and the odd one is Judas?
A guess from a Lutheran.
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### Author:  [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/3 "2015-06-04T02:25:00Z")
Do Lutherans do Stations of the Cross, but without the walking?
Tripler
Just a thought. . .
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/4 "2015-06-04T02:56:35Z")
> [@Bullitt](#):
>
> The disciples, and the odd one is Judas?
>
> A guess from a Lutheran.
I thought about this, but does anyone know for sure?
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/5 "2015-06-04T03:02:40Z")
Can you ask the church? They would almost surely know, especially if it is a recent work. A quick call to the office might do it.
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### Author:  [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/6 "2015-06-04T03:28:50Z")
4:20?
As a moderately informed Catholic, it’s not any kind of stations.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/7 "2015-06-04T05:37:28Z")
Yeah, stations would have individual symbols (usually numerals, but pictures are also used). I’d ask the church.
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/8 "2015-06-04T07:25:24Z")
I’m sure i’s meant to be Judas. But if you do call the church, be sure and tell them to flip that horseshoe vertically. If they hang it _that_ way all the luck will run out.
d&r
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### Author:  [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/9 "2015-06-04T11:35:46Z")
Not having been a practicing Lutheran for many many years, I’ve never seen anything like that before. I don’t remember anything like that when I went. When was the photo taken and where? That almost just looks like some sort of decoration and nothing more.
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/10 "2015-06-04T12:13:11Z")
“What are you making?”
“Everyone needs a banner to rally them to fight. This is our banner.”
“What does it mean?”
This word at the bottom means ‘farmer’, but it stands for this Village. These circles are us."
“One of them isn’t a circle – it’s a triangle.”
“That represents you, because you’re special.”
(Samurai laugh. Katsushiro rubs head.)
– Akira Kurasawa _The Seven Samurai_
[https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;\_ylt=AwrB8pwHP3BVCyYAr.mJzbkF;\_ylu=X3oDMTIyNGY1NXBnBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0MjdiNTAyODFjZWMzZjU0MGU4OWRhNzNjMGRhNzIzZgRncG9zAzMEaXQDYmluZw--?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DSeven%2BSamurai%2BBanner%26fr%3Dyfp-t-252%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D3&w=670&h=510&imgurl=media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F45%2Ff3%2F5f%2F45f35fdf4bb0e3cefdbe930ee625bdb4.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpinterest.com%2Fpin%2F410812797229012175%2F&size=53.9KB&name=\Seven\<%2Fb\>+\Samurai\<%2Fb\>+is+my+favorite+film%2C+and+I+really+like+the+idea+of+...&p=Seven+Samurai+Banner&oid=427b50281cec3f540e89da73c0da723f&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-252&tt=\Seven\<%2Fb\>+\Samurai\<%2Fb\>+is+my+favorite+film%2C+and+I+really+like+the+idea+of+...&b=0&ni=240&no=3&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11c6j747p&sigb=132j6sfdp&sigi=12d65i8uq&sigt=12ihn2e0b&sign=12ihn2e0b&.crumb=iFnxBO8CwGG&fr=yfp-t-252](https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=AwrB8pwHP3BVCyYAr.mJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTIyNGY1NXBnBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAM0MjdiNTAyODFjZWMzZjU0MGU4OWRhNzNjMGRhNzIzZgRncG9zAzMEaXQDYmluZw--?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3DSeven%2BSamurai%2BBanner%26fr%3Dyfp-t-252%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D3&w=670&h=510&imgurl=media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2F45%2Ff3%2F5f%2F45f35fdf4bb0e3cefdbe930ee625bdb4.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpinterest.com%2Fpin%2F410812797229012175%2F&size=53.9KB&name=%3Cb%3ESeven%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3ESamurai%3C%2Fb%3E+is+my+favorite+film%2C+and+I+really+like+the+idea+of+...&p=Seven+Samurai+Banner&oid=427b50281cec3f540e89da73c0da723f&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-252&tt=%3Cb%3ESeven%3C%2Fb%3E+%3Cb%3ESamurai%3C%2Fb%3E+is+my+favorite+film%2C+and+I+really+like+the+idea+of+...&b=0&ni=240&no=3&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11c6j747p&sigb=132j6sfdp&sigi=12d65i8uq&sigt=12ihn2e0b&sign=12ihn2e0b&.crumb=iFnxBO8CwGG&fr=yfp-t-252)
My guess would be that’s it’s Judas Iscariot, the “odd mnan out” as others have said. But I can’t find any evidence that Judas Iscariot was ever represented by an “ogee” symbol.
[https://search.yahoo.com/search;\_ylt=A0LEVwlFP3BV7iwASc9XNyoA;\_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTI1MgRncHJpZANDRnpfTTRSN1J3U1IuMU0xbkVkOEdBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMxBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDBHFzdHJsAzI5BHF1ZXJ5A1NldmVuIFNhbXVyYWkgYmFubmVyIGRpYWxvZ3VlBHRfc3RtcAMxNDMzNDE5Njcx?p=Seven+Samurai+banner+dialogue&fr2=sb-top-search&fr=yfp-t-252&fp=1](https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEVwlFP3BV7iwASc9XNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA3lmcC10LTI1MgRncHJpZANDRnpfTTRSN1J3U1IuMU0xbkVkOEdBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMxBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDBHFzdHJsAzI5BHF1ZXJ5A1NldmVuIFNhbXVyYWkgYmFubmVyIGRpYWxvZ3VlBHRfc3RtcAMxNDMzNDE5Njcx?p=Seven+Samurai+banner+dialogue&fr2=sb-top-search&fr=yfp-t-252&fp=1)
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/11 "2015-06-04T12:23:53Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#):
>
> Not having been a practicing Lutheran for many many years, I’ve never seen anything like that before. I don’t remember anything like that when I went. When was the photo taken and where? That almost just looks like some sort of decoration and nothing more.
The photo was taken yesterday around 7 PM Eastern at Christ the King Lutheran in Southgate, Michigan. [Here is their web site.](http://www.ctk.me/)
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### Author:  [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/12 "2015-06-04T12:25:15Z")
[Here is a very small wide shot of the auditorium. You can see the cross and if you squint, you can see the symbols I am referring to, including the odd one.](http://www.joemaher.com/StillSanctuary4.jpg)
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### Author:  [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/13 "2015-06-04T13:18:35Z")
Could the symbol be a stylized representation of the 30 pieces of silver?
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### Author:  [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/14 "2015-06-04T13:33:51Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#):
>
> That almost just looks like some sort of decoration and nothing more.
Possibly, but I doubt it. Churches are full of symbolism and while we might be guessing along the correct answer of the 12 disciples and Judas, there’s a chance it’s something else. I was raised Roman Catholic and have been an active Lutheran for 30 years, am moderately informed, and have never seen this anywhere else.
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### Author:  [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/15 "2015-06-04T13:37:00Z")
Have you tried googling the church to see if there’s a description somewhere? Possibly there’s a page that says “Decorated by the artist Humpty Dumpty who chooses to symbolise the disciples …”
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### Author:  [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/16 "2015-06-04T14:43:48Z")
> [@naita](#):
>
> Have you tried googling the church to see if there’s a description somewhere? Possibly there’s a page that says “Decorated by the artist Humpty Dumpty who chooses to symbolise the disciples …”
“When I use a symbol,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “It means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”
Sorry. Lewis Carroll-phile here. Couldn’t help myself.
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### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/17 "2015-06-04T14:47:35Z")
Does St. John the Baptist hold any special significance in Lutheranism? That wavy sign makes me think it could be a symbol for “water” - and by extension, for St. John the Baptist.
Similarly – any chance the wavy symbol stands for the sacrament of “baptism” itself? It seems to be on the bottom of the wall (looking at pic in the OP), with the crosses ascending diagonally (towards heaven?) from the wavy line.
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### Author:  [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/18 "2015-06-04T15:02:49Z")
Our Savior’s Lutheran Church (Hibbing, MN) has [this on their website](http://www.oslchibbing.org/?page_id=43) explaining the symbolism of their wall décor. Scroll about halfway down the page.
> [@](#):
>
> The baptismal font with its four granite shafts is a reminder that the Gospel is to be spread to the four corners of the earth. At the top of the font cover is a miniature cross.
>
> The design on the wall above the font is a dove depicting the Holy Spirit and silver waves depicting the waters of baptism.
There is a picture of the baptismal font and the wallspace above it. There are two wavy lines on the wall above the font. **Mahaloth** , any chance the baptismal font is placed under the wave symbol in your church when baptisms are performed?
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/19 "2015-06-04T15:04:26Z")
In some Christian traditions, 11 of the Apostles (including Matthias, who was elected to replace Judas) were martyred for their faith. Only John died a natural death, although he had been exiled.
But I’ll be damned if I know what the squiggle is supposed to mean, whether it represents John or Judas.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-these-weird-symbols-in-this-church-picture-included/721594/20 "2015-06-04T15:16:10Z")
> [@kunilou](#):
>
> But I’ll be damned if I know what the squiggle is supposed to mean
🙂
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