# What are they teaching my kid in school? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163 "2009-11-19T16:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/61 "2009-11-21T07:57:23Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > Heh, I woulda just asked to see the kid’s \*notes \* on the subject and have her explain to me what she was trying to mean with the cow thing. > > If it’s not in her notes or her book, I’d assume it wasn’t really that big of a deal. If she pointed to the notes and it was on government or such things, i’d try to see if we could work on that part instead using the textbook and such things.That’s the easier low stress way of trying to figure out what the kid’s learning- things like are they taking notes, are they realizing things from the notes, like important details, etc. Those are more valuable skills to learn before going into high school when they can learn more about cows and how to shoot them in the name of socialism and such things. > Pretty much look at the kid’s notes, and then ask to see what part of the textbook they’ve been learning about. Easier than trying to figure out “what was the teacher trying to say by X statement” when I don’t even know the context of the statement. I’ll admit that I haven’t seen the inside of a fifth-grade classroom in several years, but what fifth-graders do you know that take notes?!? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/62 "2009-11-21T08:20:00Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Straight Dope: you have two cows, you sell one, buy a sheep and have sex with it. Or rather… You have two cows, one of which is on a conveyor belt… ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/63 "2009-11-21T16:13:54Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > I’ll admit that I haven’t seen the inside of a fifth-grade classroom in several years, but what fifth-graders do you know that take notes?!? Really? Have things changed that much in like… 15 years or so? :eek: Pretty much after the 3rd grade we started taking notes for class- they were simplistic and in outline form, but we had to start learning those skills right then and there after like the 2nd grade. Same applied for my sister 7 years later, but she also went to the same school i did and so on. I thought that was a pretty universal thing that everyone has to do/practice by the 5th grade. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/64 "2009-11-21T17:18:11Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > I thought that was a pretty universal thing that everyone has to do/practice by the 5th grade. What makes you think that? I’ve never heard of universal note-taking in 5th grade. I was in 5th grade 30 years ago; no note-taking. Husband doesn’t remember it either. In any case, our daughter reports that she only takes notes in math as she’s less likely to remember it. Given that she’s on the honor roll, I’m okay with that. Everyone [learns differently](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAK). ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/65 "2009-11-21T22:00:16Z")
When I was in fifth grade I still didn’t get most satire. I remember that year specifically because I had a teacher who was constantly making what she thought were jokes that I thought were rude comments. I don’t blame the average adult for not knowing better, but I would expect a fifth-grade teacher to know better. ---
**Author:** ![lynne-42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lynne-42/32/3138_2.png) [@lynne-42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lynne-42)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/66 "2009-11-21T23:31:16Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > In any case, our daughter reports that she only takes notes in math as she’s less likely to remember it. Given that she’s on the honor roll, I’m okay with that. Everyone [learns differently](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAK). I agree that there are different ways of learning, but I have never seen NLP quoted in an educational context, and suggest there are much better references to differentiated classroom learning. Just to put my background in so you know my expertize and limitations: I am trained senior secondary math/sci/IT. I then specialized in gifted education, so taught as young as 4th grade extension classes both here in Australia, and online to the US. I am just back from the US, where I was invited to speak on differentiating the curriculum - my area of specialty and writing. So my real-classroom teaching is all in Australia, not the US. I am now a full time author, but still do some extension classes for 4th to 8th graders. In terms of different ways of learning, the main division in the educational literature is between visual and logical-sequential learners, and also between auditory and visual inputs, and movement…body kinesthetic. In my extension classes, the students take notes. It has not occurred to me that they wouldn’t, especially 5th graders and older. It may be what you mean by ‘taking notes’, but they would usually write down things from the board. It is an essential skill to develop. If your daughter never feels the need to, I would suspect that the work is too easy and she is not being challenged. For a high ability student, this is a worry. I have seen many students who were not extended at elementary school level then find they don’t have the skills needed for intellectual struggle at secondary level. Those who were less able, but challenged and learned the skills, such as note taking, often scored more highly once the classes separated into the more difficult subjects. My experience is particularly in math and physics at upper secondary, so maybe this isn’t relevant in this case. But I would still worry if your daughter is finding it all so easy she can just remember class work without any notes or aids. Maybe I have misunderstood you. I don’t remember what I did at elementary school, and certainly not whether I took notes or not. I can only relate what I know happens in my extension classes now. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/67 "2009-11-21T23:43:39Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > Ha! We have a variation on this, although much shorter — > > Me: What did you do in school today? > 5-year-old preschooler: Nothing > Me: They lined you up and had you stare at the wall, doing nothing, all day, huh? > 5yo: Yep, all day long. > > Now it’s progressed to — > "How was school? " > “Great! We stared at the wall ALL DAY.” > “Did the wall do anything?” > “Yes! It moved!” > “Danced around a bit, did it?” > “Yes!” > Etc. My son spent third grade describing the school’s torture chambers in great detail. Never learned a bit of math, didn’t read a book…but he is quite good at dodging the alligators in the alligator moat. He’s graduated onto “nothing.” So he still isn’t learning math or learning to read - but at least they aren’t shackling him to the wall next to the skeletons any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/68 "2009-11-22T01:12:26Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > What makes you think that? I’ve never heard of universal note-taking in 5th grade. I was in 5th grade 30 years ago; no note-taking. Husband doesn’t remember it either. In any case, our daughter reports that she only takes notes in math as she’s less likely to remember it. Given that she’s on the honor roll, I’m okay with that. Everyone [learns differently](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAK). When you say “note taking” I’m getting confused. Don’t the kids write things down during each lesson? I’d be hard pushed to recall a lesson where we didn’t - with the exception of junk modeling of course. Kids can barely remember what they did for the day once they get home as pointed out by other posters, but you have a look at their books and you can go from there. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/69 "2009-11-22T11:44:47Z")
> [@glee](#): > > So I told a group of 11 year olds one of my tried and tested jokes: > “Two parrots are on a perch and one of them says - can you smell fish?” > > One girl didn’t get it, so I reassured her there was no problem. She said she’d tell it to her family. Good. > Next lesson she looks grimly determined throughout. At the end she tells me firmly “My Dad says you’re not funny!” I ask her to repeat the joke - and she rattles off: > “Two parrots are in a cage and one of them says - can you smell fish?” :smack: Okay, I don’t get it either. What’s the joke in the first instance, and why is it not funny in the second instance? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/70 "2009-11-22T11:58:22Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Update: The social studies teacher has invited me to come to the classroom to view a poster used throughout our school district which shows a simple format of understanding different governments. She is discussing different ideologies in preparation for teaching about the world wars. > > Sound reasonable? > > I have to work this afternoon, so I won’t be able to see the poster today, but I’ll make sure her teacher is aware that she doesn’t yet get the connection. If they are using that cow poster Nava linked to, based on a bad joke with stereotypes, then I would certainly worry. To understand the joke, you need to understand the ideologies first. Explaining that fascism is about what happens to your cows rather misses the real ideology. Similarly, explaining communism that way doesn’t explain at all about Stalinist ideology. If the school district (!) is using that poster as preparation for 5th graders about WWII (for WWI it doesn’t really apply), then your child is getting a crappy history lesson. (Is it usual that history is not a seperate subject, but part of “Social studies” and thus presumably gets less time than a real full history course?) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/71 "2009-11-22T12:33:58Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Okay, I don’t get it either. What’s the joke in the first instance, and why is it not funny in the second instance? The first version has the birds on a perch. “Perch,” heard in this context, makes us think of a wooden dowell in a cage on which the birds sit. But “perch,” also refers to a type of fish. And when the parrots ask about fish, it suddenly becomes clear that the perch they were sitting on was a fish. The second version substitutes a cage for the perch, which destroys the joke. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/72 "2009-11-22T13:26:29Z")
Thanks, Bricker. I only knew perch as the wooden thing birds sit on. Is perch a common or well-known fish, that most children would get it? Obviously, if the girl substituted perch with cage, she didn’t get it. Personally, I would prefer jokes that don’t require advanced language knowledge, but which are funny even in translation/ for people with limited vocabulary like children, but maybe that’s because we have far less pun jokes in German. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/73 "2009-11-22T15:13:51Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Thanks, Bricker. I only knew perch as the wooden thing birds sit on. Is perch a common or well-known fish, that most children would get it? Here’s the [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perch) entry on perch (the fish). I’d say they’re fairly common, though I’m unsure if they would be part of the common knowledge of all children. When we were kids, my friends and I knew them quite well, since we’d often go fishing and catch them. But I don’t know if our peers who didn’t fish, would have known them. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/74 "2009-11-23T17:25:18Z")
I was a very bright kid and while my mother is fairly smart my dad is not. Plus they were foreigners (as was I, but a product of the school system). I had no problem making things up to entertain/fool/deceive my parents. That sounds terrible but it was just for fun and I was ten. I was starting to understand irony and sarcasm at that age, and my parents couldn’t wrap their heads around it at all. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/75 "2009-11-23T17:52:54Z")
Tell the teacher she forgot this: Teachers Union: You have two cows and two milkers. One milker only gets 1/2 as much milk as the other but you pay them the same until it’s time to make the less productive milker a Principal. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/76 "2009-11-23T19:34:22Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Pretty much why I couldn’t handle being a teacher. > The kids I could handle. > However the parents constant knee-jerk reactions whenever their kid tells them some out of context thing they learned that day that they were only half paying attention to and the parents scream “What are you teaching my baby!” > > Educators have my sympathy. When I was in the ninth grade, we studied different forms of government and economic systems. When we discussed communism, the teacher played devil’s advocate as a learning exercise. When students would object to some aspect of the system, the teacher would present the opposing argument. Parents called complaining that the teacher was trying to turn them into communists. Using the devil’s advocate as a teaching device was just way over the heads of some of these kids. ---
**Author:** ![Marienee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/77 "2009-11-23T20:26:00Z")
> [@lynne-42](#): > > In my extension classes, the students take notes. It has not occurred to me that they wouldn’t, especially 5th graders and older. It may be what you mean by ‘taking notes’, but they would usually write down things from the board. It is an essential skill to develop. If your daughter never feels the need to, I would suspect that the work is too easy and she is not being challenged. For a high ability student, this is a worry. I have seen many students who were not extended at elementary school level then find they don’t have the skills needed for intellectual struggle at secondary level. Those who were less able, but challenged and learned the skills, such as note taking, often scored more highly once the classes separated into the more difficult subjects. My experience is particularly in math and physics at upper secondary, so maybe this isn’t relevant in this case. But I would still worry if your daughter is finding it all so easy she can just remember class work without any notes or aids. Maybe I have misunderstood you.. When I was in school in the US, fifth grade _was_ elementary school. They began slowly introducing transition to high school in sixth grade but they did not have middle school – it was grammar school through eighth and high school after that. Note taking, outlining, making checklists and so on was explicitly taught, beginning sometime in sixth grade. It was not expected as a routine, self directed matter until high school. Full on lecture format did not appear until the last 2 years of high school, so eleventh and twelfth grades, by which time we were expected to know what to write down and what not. I myself didn’t take notes in the traditional way at any time in school unless it was required: not at university and also not in law school. I periodically drew pictures or made outlines or checklists or whatnot but none of my notes would have been useful to anyone but me as they were meant to be memory aids for, well, me. I am aware that this is unusual and went to great lengths to hide this fact when I was in school. However, I am glad they taught me to take notes the usual way as it was useful. And I have seen any number of people crash and burn when they had to belatedly try to learn how to study because they had reached their level of easy processing and needed to go further without a clue about how to do it. What they are doing now in the US I have no idea – I know it is somewhat different as my niece now attends the same school and the approach is different regarding when certain things are introduced. She had daily homework in second grade for example which we did not have. In second grade we all looked forward to entering fourth grade when we would get to do homework like the big kids. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/78 "2009-11-23T20:46:11Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Anti socialism lessons? … Get the title right… anti social studies. ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/79 "2009-11-25T20:06:10Z")
Any updates? Bessie and I are planning a vacation, and I need to know where it’s safe for us to go. I don’t want to wind up getting shot or trapped in a “Not Without My Heifer” situation. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163/80 "2009-11-26T00:05:18Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Straight Dope: you have two cows, you sell one, buy a sheep and have sex with it. A goat surely? 🙂 > [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Or rather… > > You have two cows, one of which is on a conveyor belt… …and festooned with helium balloons, with the whole contrivance inside a box along with a vial of poison, a radioactive decay trigger, and a note reading _“Hi Opal”_. 🙂 Straight Dope: You post a two cows joke and people deconstruct it… before refitting with meme attachments. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-they-teaching-my-kid-in-school/518163.md?page=5)