# What are things that non-parents cannot understand? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 23, 2021, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756 "2021-05-23T20:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/62 "2021-05-25T01:19:39Z")
I don’t think there’s any special status or knowledge to being a parent. You want a kid, knock someone up or get knocked up. Even if you’re some bum who never sees the kid, you’re a mom and leave the baby on the doorstep, you’re still a parent. That’s it. Many people can’t make it that far. There’s no guarantee. Can’t get pregnant. Maybe invitro will work. Worked for me, not others. Maybe you can adopt, then. That has its perils. You’d think all of this would be more unifying, but it really kind of isn’t. Things that are very easy may for others may be hard for you, or vice versa. And others may not have all that much empathy unless they’ve experienced something close to your experience. In vitro worked for me. The marriage did not, 100% due to the ex. That falls on deaf ears on this board, the fact that my ex is 100% responsible. She left me for someone she knew before we ever met. It was a setup job. I lived it, you didn’t. For my kids, a couple of them have a literally one in a billion genetic issue due to both the ex and me being unknown carriers. Their opportunities are significantly impacted. Single parents need support from other single parents, I have found. Not really the same as intact couples. All of this stuff can be very isolating. I was single for years, and I can’t go back and be that person again. I can only trudge through what I got. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/63 "2021-05-25T01:31:07Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > I don’t think there’s any special status or knowledge to being a parent.You want a kid, knock someone up or get knocked up. Even if you’re some bum who never sees the kid, you’re a mom and leave the baby on the doorstep, you’re still a parent. Having intact reproductive organs that you use, adverdantly or inadvertently, does not make you a parent. We, or at least I, am talking about honest-to-goodness parenting, not bodily functions. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/64 "2021-05-25T01:43:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > And while we’re on this subject, the pressure that society puts on mothers to perform perfectly at the expense of their own mental health is enormous. There’s this huge movement within our society, usually driven by the white upper middle class, to give birth without pain medication, to breastfeed at all costs and to spend every waking moment attached to your child no matter how much your mental or physical health suffers. These ideas have been perpetuated by groups with a vested interest in keeping women tied to the domestic sphere. It establishes ideals difficult for even the most privileged to uphold and impossible for many who don’t have a co-parent, or who don’t have the option to take time off work, or anyone with a serious illness, etc. It’s reinforced by other mothers and many health care professionals. And it’s totally FINE if some women get satisfaction from those approaches, but we don’t all, and this is not a one size fits all endeavor. Hooray for this. My wife, who worked on reproduction physiology in grad school and who is thus kind of an expert, thought “pain-free” birth was a crock of shit. She also thought home birthing was ridiculous. Since she vomited with every contraction, it was nice for the hospital to have to clean it up. Breast feeding didn’t work for her. Someone from La Leche League came to coach her but wound up making her feel like she failed. So we used formula. I got to feed in the middle of the night while she slept. Both our kids turned out brilliant. BTW I hear you about bonding after birth. As a father I watched my wife be in labor which is slightly different, I suspect, from doing it. I can understand the feeling of “that’s over, now leave me alone” perfectly. I bonded with my grandson an hour or so after he was born and that was even better, since I got a good night’s sleep also. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/65 "2021-05-25T02:11:07Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I was childfree by choice until nearly 40, so I can speak for the other side too: Parents, you are not in possession of some life experience that is so essential that anyone who doesn’t participate in it is less than fully human. It’s possible to have a wonderful and utterly fulfilling life without children, just in a different way. Yeah, I had my baby at 37, after living quite a fulfilling life without kids. Shortly before my 36 year old cousin gave birth, someone said to her, “You’re about to transform from a girl to a woman.” Barf. Having kids is hard enough, and permanent enough, I think if you have any doubts about whether that’s what you really want, don’t do it. I didn’t have any doubts and I still had a really rough time adjusting. And I have the easiest baby in the world. Bless anyone who knows they don’t want kids and doesn’t have kids. Sorry posted too soon… ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/66 "2021-05-25T02:26:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Breast feeding didn’t work for her. Someone from La Leche League came to coach her but wound up making her feel like she failed. So we used formula. I got to feed in the middle of the night while she slept. Same. I was in a pit of despair unlike anything I’ve ever experienced following childbirth, and the thing that brought me back from the edge was making the decision to formula feed. It led directly to sleep, and then sanity. > [@Jay\_Z](#): > > The marriage did not, 100% due to the ex. That falls on deaf ears on this board, the fact that my ex is 100% responsible. She left me for someone she knew before we ever met. It was a setup job. I lived it, you didn’t. I get that you have an axe to grind, and I’m sorry you have suffered so much because your wife left you. But you dragged that into a thread that was asking people about their happy relationships. If you were participating in a thread about infidelity, I suspect it would have gone differently. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/67 "2021-05-25T03:33:28Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Someone from La Leche League came to coach her but wound up making her feel like she failed. I’m so thankful that the nursing coach at our hospital did not do that at all. She helped with nursing, but made it very clear that formula was also a perfectly fine option. We ended up with about 25% of calories from nursing and the rest from formula. What that meant was the poop smelled just like the formula, so did the pee, the spit up, and the baby. Really, everything smelled like formula. So yeah, that’s a thing that non-parents probably do understand for other aspects of life. People will shame you in the guise of trying to be helpful. Everybody has an opinion about how you should raise your kids, fortunately many people can keep it to themselves. The ones who can’t, tend to be judgy about it. Of course parenting can be such an emotional mine field, that the shaming can hurt even people who usually can shrug those things off. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/68 "2021-05-25T05:40:25Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > What that meant was the poop smelled just like the formula, so did the pee, the spit up, and the baby. Really, everything smelled like formula. Hmm, I don’t remember that. But I might just have thought that’s what poop smelled like. The burp clothes definitely smelled like formula, though. My introduction to ToysRUs was from buying cases of formula there. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/69 "2021-05-25T05:43:53Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Same. I was in a pit of despair unlike anything I’ve ever experienced following childbirth, and the thing that brought me back from the edge was making the decision to formula feed. It led directly to sleep, and then sanity. I have a solution to the dilemma in this thread. If people without kids want to know what it is like, just set their alarms to go off every three hours during the night, and then force themselves to do some sort of a task for half an hour each time they get up - no TV or reading. Do this for a month and get back to us. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/70 "2021-05-25T06:03:11Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > If people without kids want to know what it is like, just set their alarms to go off every three hours during the night, and then force themselves to do some sort of a task for half an hour each time they get up - no TV or reading. > Do this for a month and get back to us. I’ve done that in the past, for non-parenting-related reasons, and I still don’t imagine that I as a non-parent really have any deep insight into what the mindset and emotions of parenting are like. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/71 "2021-05-25T06:21:13Z")
Wow, I’ve never seen any indication that you are a masochist before this. 😀 I suspect you were exhausted, with all that entailed. Add to that the problem that we’re wired to do something when a baby cries. The best advice our pediatrician ever gave us, when our first was waking often, was to let her cry. It was very, very hard. But it worked. Our second was easier, maybe because she just was, but also maybe because when she cried we thought “you’ll live, you can wait.” It’s all worth it, though. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/72 "2021-05-25T07:31:59Z")
> [@Salem](#): > > There are so many things you just don’t get until you are the ONE, the ONLY one, responsible for the well-being of this little teeny, tiny helpless thing that you fall so deeply in love with that you never ever knew how deeply and FIERCELY you could love another being. > > It is all on YOU (and your co-parent, if that’s your circumstance) to provide for, protect, teach, and a thousand other things you are solely responsible for. Other people may help and assist, but ultimately it is YOUR responsibility, noone else’s. Regardless of how tired, how busy, how sick, how bored, how anxious, how depressed, how hurt, how anything you are, it is still YOUR responsibility, 24/7, to ensure this child has its needs met and more. This is a great description, I wish I could Like it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/73 "2021-05-25T14:58:48Z")
Yeah, I never think non-parents are selfish. I simply think they are frequently clueless about parenting. I have no idea what its like to be Black in America. My husband has no idea what its like to be a woman. I have no idea what its like to be a pediatric oncologist or a police officer. There are identities that are encompassing, that are core to who you are and the experiences and emotions you live with on a day to day basis are different. Parenting is one of them. That doesn’t make parents morally superior. At one point when our kids were little my husband was trying to explain being a parent to a married but child free friend. The responsibility. The friend said “well, I get it, I have that relationship with my wife.” Except you don’t. Spouses are usually perfectly capable of surviving without you (having a seriously disabled spouse I suspect comes under core identities that people who haven’t had that experience can’t understand). No one is going to blame you if your spouse sits in a hot car for too long, or rides their bike in the street, or if you leave your spouse alone for an hour. If you and your spouse end up in endless screaming fights, there is divorce - when your teen spends three years screaming at you, you still need to let them live with you and be supportive and make sure they eat. But since most parents were at one time child-free themselves, they do know what its like not to have children. So it isn’t a transitive relationship between most parents and most child-free in terms of understanding where the other one is. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/74 "2021-05-25T15:37:15Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The best advice our pediatrician ever gave us, when our first was waking often, was to let her cry. It was very, very hard. But it worked. This is another thing where people will treat you as a complete monster based on AFAIK no evidence that it causes harm, just pure speculation. We live in the Age of Pseudoscience and parenting is no exception. In fact, I’ve seen so - called experts assert that mothers (always mothers) should respond to their infants’ cues so flawlessly that the baby should never cry. If you look at parenting styles across the globe and how dramatically they vary, yet produce basically the same outcome, it’s obvious this is nonsense. Within reason, it’s just a trial and error process of figuring out what works for that particular baby. Then you have babies like mine, who fall asleep at 7pm and wake up at 8am. Sometimes I feel like I haven’t had the “real” experience of parenthood based on the sleep issue alone. If I were still sleep deprived at this stage I think my mental health would be in pretty bad shape. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/75 "2021-05-25T15:54:37Z")
Don’t worry…everyone gets a certain amount of parenting strife and you got lucky on the sleep, so plan on a toddler that tantrums, potty training hell, or the worlds most sullen middle schooler. And never ever take credit for having a good kid - its mostly luck, and the parenting gods are fickle and fond of punishing pride. Take credit for early potty training and you are doomed. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/76 "2021-05-25T16:05:12Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > If you look at parenting styles across the globe and how dramatically they vary, yet produce basically the same outcome, it’s obvious this is nonsense. Within reason, it’s just a trial and error process of figuring out what works for that particular baby. Realising this was one of the things that changed my mind on having kids. It isn’t necessary to be perfect in every way, just good enough. I still wasn’t 100% sure; I’ve never been that fond of babies, but I’m enjoying being a parent to one way more than I thought I would. It’s amazing how fast they change and develop and learn new things every day. I’m really happy we decided to have a kid - even though my daughter still isn’t sleeping through the night at 14 months. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/77 "2021-05-25T16:11:04Z")
That’s wonderful, and I’m really happy we made that decision, too. I thought the infant and toddler stages were going to be something I just had to suffer through, but they have been surprisingly enjoyable starting at around six months. It was incredible watching him wake up to the world and now that he’s starting to form a personality it’s so exciting. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/78 "2021-05-25T16:26:46Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > That’s wonderful, and I’m really happy we made that decision, too. I thought the infant and toddler stages were going to be something I just had to suffer through, but they have been surprisingly enjoyable starting at around six months. It was incredible watching him wake up to the world and now that he’s starting to form a personality it’s so exciting I’m one of those people who fell in love straight away, and although it was insanely hard I still enjoyed the infant stage. But she is definitely a lot more fun now she can do things for herself and get into all kinds of mischief. The NHS pushes all the stuff you mentioned earlier, by the way. My antenatal classes talked about the ‘cascade of interventions’ and stressed the benefits of breastfeeding. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/79 "2021-05-25T16:29:52Z")
[quote=“Dangerosa, post:73, topic:942756”] But since most parents were at one time child-free themselves, they do know what its like not to have children. [/quote] True, but parents don’t know what it would have been like to continue to grow themselves without having children. Some parents–not all, not even most, but a significant number I’ve encountered–seem to think that, because they were 25 and somewhat immature when they had kids, that everyone who doesn’t have kids is still in that phase of life and headspace. It’s more a back-of-the-head bias than a consciously-held belief, but it’s there. I ran into an old friend a while back who had been the first in our group to have kids, and she made a comment about drifting away from our other friends because she’d outgrown the club scene. I didn’t say anything but was left scratching my head–what club scene? None of the people she’d stopped talking to had been to a club since she’d had her first kid, as far as I knew. I scrolled through some of their social media accounts and saw lots of pictures of them hiking, going to brunch, and doing all sorts of typical thirtysomething things, but sure enough, no club photos, and nary a red solo cup in sight. I get that friends often grow apart when some have kids and others don’t, but what some parents fail to understand is that they’re both growing in different directions; the child-free are not simply stagnant where you left them. I terminated an unintended pregnancy when I was 23. I was in a stable, long-term relationship and we had discussed marriage and children someday. I had a job and health insurance. I wasn’t in the worst possible position to become a parent. But I didn’t want to. Since then, I’ve done a lot of things that some people manage to do despite having kids, but I don’t think I would’ve been able to do. I went to law school and got a much better job than I had before. I broke up with that boyfriend and married a man who’s much better for me. I got into some volunteer gigs that have been really meaningful to me. I let go of a lot of baggage that was holding me back. I moved back closer to my parents and developed a deeper relationship with them, as well as making some better friends. I took up scuba diving and have been establishing a place for myself in the diving community, mentoring newbies, sharing resources, and connecting people I’ve met with each other. If you only knew me before I almost became a parent, you don’t really know me anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/80 "2021-05-25T18:10:37Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > > > So far he has not said a single word, and I’m trying not to freak. > > My daughter hasn’t either, it’s really hard not to worry. The amazing thing at this age is that they start to _understand_ language before they can create it themselves. Watch them listen to you and listen in on other people talking. They’re putting it together day by day, but don’t yet have the mental and physical infrastructure to actually speak coherent words. And then, one day, they do. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756/81 "2021-05-25T18:18:57Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > In fact, I’ve seen so - called experts assert that mothers (always mothers) should respond to their infants’ cues so flawlessly that the baby should never cry. A joke from an old Justin Wilson album - he was a standup comic before he had a cooking show. There was a kid, a Cajun kid, who never spoke. His parents were concerned. They took him to the doctor and the doctor said there was nothing wrong, but the kid might be crazy in the head. He didn’t know. Then one day at breakfast when the kid was five he said “this toast burned like hell, I gawarantee.” The parents lost their teeth. They were aplomb. The father said “How come you never spoke before now, heh?” The kid said “Because up to now, everything was okay.” So a little bit of dissatisfaction is good, I gawrantee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-things-that-non-parents-cannot-understand/942756.md?page=5)