# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/181 "2026-06-13T21:40:04Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Only hard work by UFO believers has gotten the layperson to even consider that UFOs might exist in any form. UFOs will always exist, no matter how good we are at explainingn them. UFOs always exist in the so-called ‘Low Information Zone’; that is to say, UFOS never appear close enough to the observer for clear, detailed images of the phenomenon to be obtained. How can this be achieved? The UFOs (or the entities which control them) must be capable of detecting every camera on the planet, and ensuring that they are far enough away from the camera to only appear as a fuzzy blob or a streak. This is blatantly absurd, and as afar as I am concerned this fact would eliminate any possibility that these things have any real existence (as opposed to mistaken identity). It is wrong to call all these reports ‘fakes’, of course; certainly there are innumerable hoaxes, but a very large fraction of reports are honest mistakes and misidentifications, even though it takes some effort to discover the probable causes of those error. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/182 "2026-06-13T21:50:34Z")
Youtube and the like have shown people desperate for attention that other people will believe (and follow) anyone who says anything, no matter how little evidence they have. This has increased exponentially because the intertubes have shown them that idiots and deliberate ignoramuses are far greater in number then they ever secretly hoped. The amount of visual evidence (and belief) decreased for a while as cameras got better, but they are going up again now that AI makes visual evidence worth next to nothing. There are videos of baby dragons cavorting these days that would have been taken as solid evidence of their existence ten years ago. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/183 "2026-06-13T22:01:57Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I dunno why this keeps being repeated (c.f. the XKCD pic too), as a quick search on YT will reveal ALL the UFO sightings you could ever _possibly_ wish for, in endless abundance. Well, YT clips of UFOs/UAPs fall into three categories, and it takes work to distinguish between them. Unfortunately most UFOs on YouTube are CG fakes, and the best way to detect these hoaxes is to look at the context. Some fakes are posted by prolific CG artists, who sometimes post CG renders as proof of their technical and commercial skill. These artists can generally be distinguished by looking at other videos on their channel, where they are often quite open about their rendering skills and the tools they use. Other clips show phenomena which are easily recognised, even if the witness did not recognise them at the time. Sky lanterns, parachute flares, drones, illuminated kites, children’s balloons, weather balloons, out-of-focus stars and planets, meteors, distant aircraft, and recently many, many reports of Starlink satellites. Not just the spectacular phenomenon of Starlink chains soon after launching; another phenomenon caused by Starlink constellations is the specular glinting that occurs when they catch the Sun while in their permanent orbit. Really, airline companies need to give their pilots special training to identify these sky-glints, which all occur in a very small segment of the sky. Note as well the recent wave of ‘foreign drone’ reports from New Jersey and elsewhere; using flightradar tracking apps, it is possible to show that nearly all of these ‘foreign drones’ were actually commercial aircraft much further away than the observers thought. In one case the Customs and Border Protection people shot down a party balloon, thinking it was a drone; > **[CBP shot down party balloons with anti-drone tech before FAA closed El Paso...](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/cbp-shot-party-balloons-anti-drone-tech-faa-closed-el-paso-airspace-so-rcna258731)** > > The airspace was suddenly closed after CBP officials didn't coordinate with FAA officials, four people familiar with the matter said. one hopes they don’t use these lasers on misidentified commercial jets. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/184 "2026-06-13T22:06:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, saying that any given UFO is the result of a mischievous intelligent being from this planet, sure, that’s one reasonable possible explanation. But why assume that that mischievous intelligent being isn’t human? Surely, there’s enough of us to go around. Humans can’t do what the phenomena does and has done. Not unless you accept the possibility of humans from adjacent timelines, say. Whatever causes this does seem to take cues from human expectations and stereotypes. > [@Chronos](#): > > And then there’s the same problem as with the alien explanation: If they’re living on the same planet as us and we’ve never met them directly, they must be very, very good at remaining hidden. So why have we seen UFOs? Because they want us to see them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/185 "2026-06-13T22:07:02Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > If a person misidentifies mundane phenomena for UFOs, how does that debunk other UFO sightings? There will always be sighting of things unknown, therefore how can anything be “debunked” in your eyes? Do we have to check every single cat in the world to see if they can levitate before you can say, “I’m not going to consider that silly notion before you actually bring me a cat that can levitate. My time is more valuable than that.”? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/186 "2026-06-13T22:08:19Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Because they want us to see them. They are either hiding or they are not. _Please pick one._ ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/187 "2026-06-13T22:12:18Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > In some cases there is not enough data to explain the reports; almost all of these unexplained sightings do not have photographic or video evidence to back them up, so the possibility remains that the witnesses were mistaken about some, or many of the cases. So far no indisputable evidence of intelligently controlled craft has been released, and after eighty years I expect this will remain to be the case for the foreseeable future. I find it tough to believe that trained military observers and pilots have all gotten fooled. Yes, witnesses do fooled but not, I think, all of them, every time. As far as “intelligently controlled craft” I don’t know what those exist. Not in a metal flying saucer sense. Except in human craft created to seem “alien”, for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/188 "2026-06-13T22:14:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They are either hiding or they are not. _Please pick one._ Humans sometimes observe wildlife openly, other times covertly, sometimes do things like construct fake wildlife. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/189 "2026-06-13T22:16:53Z")
Here’s why I’m not a believer: - the vast majority of UFO sightings have been explained as natural - no alien craft have ever crashed (if their technology is so good, why do they allow us to see them?) - there are masses of reports of people being taken aboard alien craft … yet nobody thinks that’s evidence ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/190 "2026-06-13T22:17:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There will always be sighting of things unknown, therefore how can anything be “debunked” in your eyes? Do we have to check every single cat in the world to see if they can levitate before you can say, “I’m not going to consider that silly notion before you actually bring me a cat that can levitate. My time is more valuable than that.”? Phenomena can get debunked when other, more logically consistent evidence can explain it as well as better. With UFOs, nobody has done that yet. If thousands of reports of levitating cats existed, then you might have something. But obviously those reports don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/191 "2026-06-13T22:17:17Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Humans can’t do what the phenomena does and has done. Such as? All the claims of this sort have been based on assumptions about things that can’t be known. Like, you can’t tell how fast a light in the sky is moving unless you know how far away it is, and you can’t tell how far away it is unless you already know what it is, which you don’t. > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Because they want us to see them. Then why not make it clearer? > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I find it tough to believe that trained military observers and pilots have all gotten fooled. Yes, witnesses do fooled but not, I think, all of them, every time. Of course they haven’t all gotten fooled. Some haven’t seen any UFOs. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/192 "2026-06-13T22:17:45Z")
Well, if any aliens are trying to observe us openly, they are doing an incredibly piss-poor job of it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/193 "2026-06-13T22:21:01Z")
Also, “trained military advisors and pilots” have been known to follow dust, bugs, smears on the windshield and reflections. What is the absolute best example you’ve got for us, @Cryptoterestrial? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/194 "2026-06-13T22:25:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Well, if any aliens are trying to observe us openly, they are doing an incredibly piss-poor job of it. I hope you don’t think that I mean “aliens” in an extraterrestrial sense, because I doubt that they come form space. (Go back and read my first post.) With that > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Also “trained military advisors and pilots” have been known to follow dust, bugs, smears on the windshield and reflections. What is the absolute best example you’ve got for us? I think that the cases of UFOs inducing (in some cases) fatal radiation sickness stand out as pretty persuasive. I don’t have a hard science-based appraisal of the phenomena though, so you’d best ask someone else. As far as your “incredibly piss-poor job” of observing us openly, I don’t know what that means. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/195 "2026-06-13T22:25:25Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I find it tough to believe that trained military observers and pilots have all gotten fooled. Yes, witnesses do fooled but not, I think, all of them, every time. No, not every witness is fooled, every time. Just the ones who think they have seen an anomalous craft or other phenomenon. Whenever there is sufficiently good photographic or video evidence then these phenomena can be identified; only when the imagery is poor is there a mystery. My question remains - how do the UFO operators know exactly how far away to travel to become a mystery? Do they have a record of the site and resolution power of every single camera on Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/196 "2026-06-13T22:26:43Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I think that the cases of UFOs inducing (in some cases) fatal radiation sickness stand out as pretty persuasive. They sure would! Link, please? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/197 "2026-06-13T22:28:36Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > think that the cases of UFOs inducing (in some cases) fatal radiation sickness stand out as pretty persuasive. I don’t have a hard science-based appraisal of the phenomena though, so you’d best ask someone else. Cite? The most famous event of this kind I know about is the Cash-Landrum case, and that almost certainly wasn’t radiation sickness. > **[The Legendary Cash-Landrum Case: Radiation Sickness from a Close Encounter?](https://zenodo.org/records/10581488)** > > One night in December 1980, Betty Cash (then age 51), her friend Vickie Landrum (57), and Vickie’s grandson Colby (7), allegedly witnessed, at close range, a massive, hovering, diamond-shaped, porthole-encircled, fire-spewing object, which was soon... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/198 "2026-06-13T22:29:43Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > As far as your “incredibly piss-poor job” of observing us openly, I don’t know what that means. How about “crappy”, or “inept”, or “incompetent”, or “ineffective”, or “half-assed” etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/199 "2026-06-13T22:29:59Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > No, not every witness is fooled, every time. Just the ones who think they have seen an anomalous craft or other phenomenon. Whenever there is sufficiently good photographic or video evidence then these phenomena can be identified; only when the imagery is poor is there a mystery. I disagree with you on the point. Thinking mainly of the video footage of anomalies like the famous “Tic-Tac”. Also, the best footage taken by the military may not have gotten released to the public. > [@eburacum45](#): > > My question remains - how do the UFO operators know exactly how far away to travel to become a mystery? Do they have a record of the site and resolution power of every single camera on Earth? General principles apply. If you throw water on an open wire, it’ll spark, yes? Also, you seem to think that I advocate the concept that UFOs come from space. Go back and read my first post where I explain that I don’t think that they come from space. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/200 "2026-06-13T22:30:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How about “crappy”, or “inept”, or “incompetent”, or “ineffective”, or “half-assed” etc.? What would the opposite look like? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=11)