# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/201 "2026-06-13T22:31:10Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Also, the best footage taken by the military may not have gotten released to the public. If the evidence is hidden, then it is not evidence that you can use. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/202 "2026-06-13T22:32:11Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Cite? The most famous event of this kind I know about is the Cash-Landrum case, and that almost certainly wasn’t radiation sickness. Something happened, though. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/203 "2026-06-13T22:32:33Z")
Like prefacing each word used with the word “not”. Have you got any actual evidence that fits? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/204 "2026-06-13T22:33:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If the evidence is hidden, then it is not evidence that you can use. True, but why the interest and concern by the US (and other) military and why did they hide it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/205 "2026-06-13T22:33:54Z")
_Something has happened every single second since the universe began_ . ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/206 "2026-06-13T22:33:56Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Thinking mainly of the video footage of anomalies like the famous “Tic-Tac”. Also, the best footage taken by the military may not have gotten released to the public. The Tic-tac seems to have been a distant (terrestrial) plane, filmed by a pilot who was unable to see anything at all unusual with his own eyes. And we really can’t discuss ‘unreleased’ video evidence amd make any value judgements about it until it is released; if this material is ever released, we can take another look. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/207 "2026-06-13T22:34:48Z")
The military hides almost everything they do. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/208 "2026-06-13T22:35:35Z")
Why would they have interest in the phenomena, though? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/209 "2026-06-13T22:36:59Z")
“I don’t know what I saw, if anything” “We should try to find out, then” ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/210 "2026-06-13T22:37:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The military hides almost everything they do. Why would they have an interest in this particular phenomena, then? Wouldn’t have concluded that UFOs didn’t exist by now, if they didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/211 "2026-06-13T22:37:48Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > True, but why the interest and concern by the US (and other) military and why did they hide it? If the evidence is sufficiently detailed to show the strengths (and weaknesses) of US (and other) miltary sensors, then this evidence will remain classified, simple as that.Even the clips which have been released are heavily redacted, to protect military capabilites (or the lack of them). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/212 "2026-06-13T22:39:48Z")
Why should they? According to the standard you have given us, every single solitary incident has to be explained thoroughly before they can all be dismissed, and since such anomalies keep happening, they can’t be dismissed, period. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/213 "2026-06-13T22:42:36Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Here’s why I’m not a believer: > > - the vast majority of UFO sightings have been explained as natural > [@glee](#): > > - no alien craft have ever crashed (if their technology is so good, why do they allow us to see them?) > - there are masses of reports of people being taken aboard alien craft … yet nobody thinks that’s evidence > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Why should they? According to the standard you have given us, every single solitary incident has to be explained thoroughly before they can all be dismissed, and since such anomalies keep happening, they can’t be dismissed, period. But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/214 "2026-06-13T22:43:22Z")
> Why should they? According to the standard you have given us, every single solitary incident has to be explained thoroughly before they can all be dismissed, and since such anomalies keep happening, they can’t be dismissed, period. > > But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/215 "2026-06-13T22:43:35Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Why would they have an interest in this particular phenomena, then? Wouldn’t have concluded that UFOs didn’t exist by now, if they didn’t? Unfortunately there is a small but vocal clique of military people who do believe in UFOs/UAPs as extraterrestrial/ultraterrestrial/cryptoterrestrial, and they are constantly feeding each other rumours which cannot be substantiated. One of the biggest culprits is Jacques Vallee, unfortunately. Once upon a time I had great respect for his work; I now realise he is responsible for a great deal of confusion. All his recent investigations have been deeply flawed, and easily disproved. The ‘extradimensional hypothesis’ is completely unfalsifiable, so has no value as a hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/216 "2026-06-13T22:44:19Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > Why should they? According to the standard you have given us, every single solitary incident has to be explained thoroughly before they can all be dismissed, and since such anomalies keep happening, they can’t be dismissed, period. > > But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/217 "2026-06-13T22:46:20Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I think that the cases of UFOs inducing (in some cases) fatal radiation sickness stand out as pretty persuasive. Yes, if that had ever happened, that would be very relevant. Think about it this way: If the aliens or cryptoterrestrials or whatever didn’t exist, what would we expect to see? We would see a whole lot of people seeing nothing of interest, and a few mistaken people thinking they saw them. In other words, exactly what we do have. > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Why would they have interest in the phenomena, though? Because it’s a very easy and convenient way to distract attention away from all of the actually-secret things they do. > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. How is that consistent? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/218 "2026-06-13T22:47:40Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > But then the sighting generally ave a certain consistency to them, too. Spheres, cigar-shaped objets and triangles turn up a lot. For some reason the famous ‘black triangles’ do not show up on film, so they are almost certainly an illusion. It is also difficult to find good images of ‘spheres’, although featureless blobs and out of focus stars and planets are commonplace. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/219 "2026-06-13T22:49:42Z")
Yep, after someone says they saw something unknown of a certain shape, the wannabes come out of the woodwork saying they saw the same thing, then it dies down until someone else says they some other certain-shaped thing followed by another surge of wannabes. Rinse, repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2026, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/220 "2026-06-13T22:50:45Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Unfortunately there is a small but vocal clique of military people who do believe in UFOs/UAPs as extraterrestrial/ultraterrestrial/cryptoterrestrial, and they are constantly feeding each other rumours which cannot be substantiated. Roughly four generations have passed since UFOs hit mass public consciousness. So not only a first generation of believers but several. That doesn’t seem too likely to me. Granted, a number of them do believe in a Christian interoperation and, well, that doesn’t exactly help matters. > [@eburacum45](#): > > One of the biggest culprits is Jacques Vallee, unfortunately. Once upon a time I had great respect for his work; I now realise he is responsible for a great deal of confusion. All his recent investigations have been deeply flawed, and easily disproved. The ‘extradimensional hypothesis’ is completely unfalsifiable, so has no value as a hypothesis. I haven’t read his work since the '80s. So what he has said more recently wouldn’t invalidate his earlier work. I also don’t like the term “extradimensional”. It could mean anything. I do think that with a phenomena this strange we really do (for now) have to make some unfalsifiable guess (again, for now). Remember, though, Darwin’s theory of evolution only kind of made sense and then they found out about DNA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=12)