# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/241 "2026-06-14T00:01:02Z")
Very few indeed, generally speaking, it always has to remain “mysterious” as it fits the interests of the military and the economical well being of the ones pushing the idea that it is extra or crypto terrestrial. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/242 "2026-06-14T00:02:10Z")
Let me know if/when it ever happens, o.k.? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/243 "2026-06-14T00:32:33Z")
Previous post repeated upon review because it never got an answer and I would genuinely like to know: > [@Lumpy](#): > > I wonder if anyone can find hard information on the following topic, because I think it would be a good point of comparison. During World War Two there really were a small number of enemy spies in the USA and Britain. Moreover they were in the public consciousness because the government constantly warned people not to talk about anything war sensitive, and enemy spies were a popular theme in fiction. I have no hard numbers but I suspect that the intelligence and security apparatus were flooded with enormous amounts of bullshit, probably something like 10,000 reports for every real spy. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/244 "2026-06-14T00:35:02Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Really the only reason we have for supposing that UFOs are vessels for extraterrestrial beings is a number of accounts that seem dubious and contradictory. So what else could they be? > I’d like to toss out a somewhat unhelpful but valid possibility: UFOs are something we _don’t have a concept for yet_. They’re so outside our current experience that we don’t yet have the mental background to understand what they are. For example, how would you explain the concept of “a glitch in the Matrix” before computers introduced the idea of virtual reality? various hypothetical concepts are that they come from a parallel universe, or they are human time travelers from the future, or they come from other dimensions and aspects of reality within the omniverse that we can’t comprehend with our 3 pound brains. However some research (and I don’t know how validated it is) into UFO crash materials find that they have isotopic ratios different from the isotopic ratios found in our solar system. Which means that they would come from solar systems formed from different gas clouds than the gas cloud our solar system was made of. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/245 "2026-06-14T00:35:59Z")
Speaker of the House and trained political expect [Mike Johnson](https://www.ms.now/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/speaker-mike-johnson-says-election-conspiracy-theories-feel-instinctively-true). > Apparently comfortable speaking on behalf of the nation, [Johnson told reporters](https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5915168-speaker-mike-johnson-california/?tbref=hp) on Monday afternoon that “everybody knows” that the process of counting votes in California “stinks to high heaven.” > > Asked the obvious question about conspiracy theorists’ lack of evidence, the House speaker added, “Some of these efforts are so diabolical and so far upstream that it’s impossible to prove, but I think everybody knows instinctively something is wrong here.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/246 "2026-06-14T01:44:22Z")
Show us one scrap of material made by Tech beyond our means. Show us one micro-organism, stowed away on an alien, that is Not Of This Earth. Phooey. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/247 "2026-06-14T03:13:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > However some research (and I don’t know how validated it is) into UFO crash materials find that they have isotopic ratios different from the isotopic ratios found in our solar system. Which means that they would come from solar systems formed from different gas clouds than the gas cloud our solar system was made of. Well, Scientific American did take a look, and: researchers back then never claimed these materials possessed extraterrestrial isotopic ratios or impossible compositions. > **[The Truth about Those "Alien Alloys" in The New York Times UFO Story](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-truth-about-those-alien-alloys-in-the-new-york-times-ufo-story/)** > > Is the government really stockpiling materials in a Nevada building that scientists cannot identify? In short, the “alien alloys” were physical pieces of metal stockpiled by researchers, but they lack scientifically verified proof of extraterrestrial origins. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/248 "2026-06-14T03:53:28Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > If thousands of reports of levitating cats existed, then you might have something. But obviously those reports don’t exist. Okay, so let’s talk about a more common type of reporting, for which thousands of reports actually DO exist. I am talking about sightings of-(get ready for a surprise-) a phenomenon called : God There are millions of reports about seeing angels, orJesus, or the Virgin Mary, or whatever. Many of these reports are from reputable, respected people (for example, pilots). Many of these reports have been verified by many witnesses, at known locations ( pilgrimage sites).And many of these reports have documented evidence on film. Therefor, obviously, God exists. He is watching us, following us from a distance, and he is also pretty good at hiding from us most of the time, but sometimes makes a mistake and lets us see him . ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/249 "2026-06-14T06:50:19Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I do think that with a phenomena this strange we really do (for now) have to make some unfalsifiable guess (again, for now). If it’s unfalsifiable then it’s of absolutely no use as a hypothesis. > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Remember, though, Darwin’s theory of evolution only kind of made sense and then they found out about DNA. No, we had tens of thousands of years of evidence that humans could select for “favored traits”, artificial selection. Darwin simply proposed that nature itself selected “favored traits”, natural selection. Hence _On the Origin of Species **by Means of Natural Selection** _. DNA explained the source of the variation in traits. Without DNA what Darwin proposed was obviously true, DNA is simply one of the "how?"s of evolution. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/250 "2026-06-14T08:11:03Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > However some research (and I don’t know how validated it is) into UFO crash materials find that they have isotopic ratios different from the isotopic ratios found in our solar system. This is simply not true.AARO (the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office) have investigated all the so-called UFO debris reports, and none of them are extraterrestrial. They are all hoaxes and mistakes (as far as 'recovered UFO material’s are concerned, they are nearly all hoaxes - smelting slag, car radiator parts - the sort of stuff that can only be the result of deliberate deception). ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/251 "2026-06-14T08:19:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Previous post repeated upon review because it never got an answer and I would genuinely like to know: > [@Lumpy](#): > > …enormous amounts of bullshit, probably something like 10,000 reports for every real spy. I’m not quite sure, but are you saying that there may be enormous amounts of bullshit in the UFO field, but there might be (say) 1 in 10,000 reports that are true? This might be the case, but you could apply this metric to anything. Maybe 1 in 10,000 reports of fairies are true. 1 in 10,000 reports of angels, 1 in 10,000 reports of vampires or werewolves. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/252 "2026-06-14T10:22:46Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > This is simply not true.AARO (the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office) have investigated all the so-called UFO debris reports, and none of them are **extraterrestrial**. Emphasis added. The evidence, in my opinion points (heavily) to UFO existing but not that UFOs come from space. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/253 "2026-06-14T10:26:34Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > I’m not quite sure, but are you saying that there may be enormous amounts of bullshit in the UFO field, but there might be (say) 1 in 10,000 reports that are true? This might be the case, but you could apply this metric to anything. Maybe 1 in 10,000 reports of fairies are true. 1 in 10,000 reports of angels, 1 in 10,000 reports of vampires or werewolves. But in the case of UFOs we have more sightings and more evidence. It actually does seem likely that the same phenomenon behind UFOs has also inspired stories of angels and fairies, and, for that matter djinn. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/254 "2026-06-14T10:38:15Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No, we had tens of thousands of years of evidence that humans could select for “favored traits”, artificial selection. Darwin simply proposed that nature itself selected “favored traits”, natural selection. Hence _On the Origin of Species **by Means of Natural Selection** _. > DNA explained the source of the variation in traits. Without DNA what Darwin proposed was obviously true, DNA is simply one of the "how?"s of evolution. So, ideas like that of Darwin’s (and Lamarck’s) exited for thousands of years. Then Darwin came around and codified things. Darwin’s version of evolution won out over Lamarck’s (except in the Soviet Union where they had Lysenkoism for a while), DNA got discovered and refinements on Darwin’s model have gotten made. We likely existed in the pre-Darwin stage of studying UFOs, with institutional resistance preventing a Darwin from coming along. A self-perpetuating set of affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/255 "2026-06-14T11:36:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let me know if/when it ever happens, o.k.? I will, but I don’t plan on getting into it today, meaning Sunday. I try (and often fail) to make Sundays my internet-free days. With that said, I would appreciate it if you took a less sarcastic tone with me. I have done my best o answer you in a good faith manner whereas you seem to want to cut pieces out of me. It gets draining to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/256 "2026-06-14T12:37:13Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > But in the case of UFOs we have more sightings and more evidence. Uh, in reality just more fake, unreliable, misleading and useless evidence. > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > It actually does seem likely that the same phenomenon behind UFOs has also inspired stories of angels and fairies, and, for that matter djinn. As others mentioned (even the ones you mention as being “good” researchers) the phenomenon might as well point to altered mind effects, psychological religious states, etc. Not extra or crypto terrestrial beings. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/257 "2026-06-14T12:55:46Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > We likely existed in the pre-Darwin stage of studying UFOs, with institutional resistance preventing a Darwin from coming along. A self-perpetuating set of affairs. That doesn’t work. There is nothing in UFO… stuff that directly compares to the human directed selection that Darwin had as an exemplar of modification through selection. I still want to know why you think that a phenomena this strange allows us to make unfalsifiable guesses given the meaning of _unfalsifiable_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/258 "2026-06-14T13:37:23Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I will, but I don’t plan on getting into it today, meaning Sunday. I try (and often fail) to make Sundays my internet-free days. I’ll check back Monday, then, since you won’t be posting any more on the subject today. It should be noted though that 1000 bits of speculation still is not equivalent to one bit of actual evidence. Reality is not a popularity contest. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/259 "2026-06-14T14:04:15Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > I’m not quite sure, but are you saying that there may be enormous amounts of bullshit in the UFO field, but there might be (say) 1 in 10,000 reports that are true? This might be the case, but you could apply this metric to anything. Maybe 1 in 10,000 reports of fairies are true. 1 in 10,000 reports of angels, 1 in 10,000 reports of vampires or werewolves. No, I’m making no claims one way or another about the probability of UFOs being real. I was approaching the question of the reliability of reports from the public in general. In the case of a known to be true but rare phenomenon– enemy spies– that after the war could be (and presumably were) completely validated or invalidated by access to the defeated enemy records. For example, what percentage of reports were deliberate falsehoods, how many were from crackpots or hysterics, how many were sincere but mistaken, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2026, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/260 "2026-06-14T14:08:47Z")
The difference is that we undeniable proof that enemy agents exist-the only question therefore is “What exactly do these very real entities do?” In the case of UFOs we haven’t even got to the “Do they even exist?” stage of the game. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=14)