# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/281 "2026-06-16T00:26:32Z")
Ummm.i know lots of ways altered states of consciousness affect persons. Most are bad news. In fact, I invented a box that would solve every problem while in an ASC. Several times. PS ..ever had a dream? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/282 "2026-06-16T00:28:22Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now that it is Monday, I ask you to give us the best evidence you’ve got for the existence of these creatures and/or the vehicles they (for want of better terminology) “pilot”, as you have already told us such evidence exists. I wouldn’t call this the best evidence, but I have some evidence, yes. > **[Cosmic Flashes from the Cold War: Dr. Beatriz Villarroel’s Astonishing Links...](https://uapf.substack.com/p/cosmic-flashes-from-the-cold-war)** > > Written by UAP Files - Jimmy [https://medium.com/@avi-loeb/we-should-not-mistake-cosmic-rays-for-ufos-8d10b0085b9c](https://medium.com/@avi-loeb/we-should-not-mistake-cosmic-rays-for-ufos-8d10b0085b9c) I included the second link because it contains Villaroel’s rebuttal to Avi Loeb’s trying to debunk her. > **[Sphere Network — Grokipedia](https://grokipedia.com/page/sphere-network)** > > The Sphere Network is a speculative planetary defense system conceptualized by ufologist and IT specialist Patrick Jackson, positing a multi-tiered grid of AI-controlled metallic spheres that form an Important note: the developer of the sphere network theory has speculated that he knows why the network exists. I don’t endorse that part of his theory. Or even that a past civilization created it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/283 "2026-06-16T00:32:56Z")
But you were asked for your best evidence, not “Here is something And If this doesn’t work, what about this, and if this does work, what about _this_?”. You claimed you had your best evidence to support your ideas, so what is it? What _would_ you call your “best evidence”? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/284 "2026-06-16T00:33:33Z")
As I said over the weekend, I don’t appreciate the sarcasm. With that said, I don’t understand your point. Yes, the phenomena messes with people. Yes, it lies. I described it earlier as a trickster. Maybe not an intentional one, though. With that said, again, I don’t understand your point. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/285 "2026-06-16T00:37:07Z")
I presented the best evidence I could muster off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/286 "2026-06-16T00:39:22Z")
You presented other people’s thoughts on the subject. Is this what you consider to be solid evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/287 "2026-06-16T00:40:08Z")
I have no point. Not being sarcastic as much as poking fun at you. Really. I don’t know you. I keep thinking this is all parody. I guess not. You carry on. I’ll see myself out. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/288 "2026-06-16T00:49:52Z")
I suggest you click on the above links and absorb the knowledge contained therein. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/289 "2026-06-16T01:12:52Z")
I agree with with you that that is a great idea you should take to heart. I know _I_ did, and it made dismissing those ideas even easier. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/290 "2026-06-16T02:00:59Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > Going back to my Darwin analogy, did Darwin know about DNA? Nope, he didn’t know about DNA or mutations or Nitpick: Darwin did know that in animal and plant breeding spontaneous specimens sometimes arose: a “sport” to use the breeder nomenclature. A key point of his theory was that such spontaneous introduction of uninherited traits gave selection new material to work on, which was how speciation could take place. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/291 "2026-06-16T02:19:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you have any actual evidence to back _any_ of this up? There’s never been a single shred of evidence that aliens have visited Earth. It’s strange that we’re even discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/292 "2026-06-16T02:22:09Z")
Well, there’s _testimony_ that they have, which is sort of evidence, just not verifiable second-hand. Dubious, doubtful, in many cases stinks like rotten fish testimony. But it’s where the entire idea came from. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/293 "2026-06-16T02:29:11Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Well, there’s _testimony_ that they have, which is sort of evidence, Testimony is the worst form of evidence. All of the evidence, or lack thereof, strongly suggests aliens have never visited Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/294 "2026-06-16T02:30:55Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > How could I possibly know the answer to these questions? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > And “they work in ways humans can never understand” is meaningless noise, equivalent to “God waved his hand and did it.” That is not a “theory” – that is a “belief”, inarguable, unfalsifiable, unworthy of debate. That’s why I’m not debating. A stance I recommend to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/295 "2026-06-16T03:21:09Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > yes, the phenomena likely does have to do with ASC (altered state of consciousness). what induces the ASC, though? what (or who) induces it? what would induce a person to just sort of hallucinate high strangeness like that? it has to do have a cause. And the causes are likely to be mundane, not Crypto or extra terrestrial.. [I posted this awhile ago:](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/do-you-believe-in-demons-and-is-pornography-sinful/1021184/22) > I found out that even [eye floaters](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/eye-floaters/symptoms-causes/syc-20372346#:~:text=They%2520may%2520look%2520to%2520you%2520like%2520black,you%2520try%2520to%2520look%2520at%2520them%2520directly.) can be turned into evil monsters (evil bugs in my case), this took place when I had some cases of [sleep paralysis](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/21974-sleep-paralysis). > > Now, how I found out that they were not completely imaginary? > > I do think that it is not so simple a matter of declaring things in dreams as demons. Some real issues can intervene and the brain is just bullshitting you like when AI large language models make up things because the brain tries to make sense of things _by any means necessary at its disposal._ > > So I did have the usual, some days I open my eyes early and did see on the wall or roof of my room, a bug crawling. A bug that then increased in size and began to threaten me, I usually did wake up with sweats and a sore throat, caused by my screaming, > > After a few rounds of that, I began to pay attention to how it usually started: the “bugs” began appearing as fuzzy spots or fuzzy lines that grew into monster creepy crawling bugs. > > I looked for an explanation and remembered that a few floaters in my eyes looked like how the bugs started appearing, so I did made an effort to see if the bugs moved when I did move my eyes. They did. > > One day I managed to remember my knowledge and do my plan, and sure enough, the bugs followed were I moved my eyes. > > Before that, I had some lucid dreams with more control of the scenes, and I thought then: "Your ass is mine now, you Darth Maul Bugs! > > And as an effective shortcut, I applied a Star Wars “Force” style maneuver. Because the bugs followed my eye moves, as the source was the eye floaters, the dream adjusted to make the bugs to be thrashed around mercilessly with the tables, walls, and other items, so much so that while I did enjoy it, I was beginning to feel a little bit sorry for those critters. > > Not so much.. because when I figured that out, I began to look forward to those times early in the mornings! But of course. Your brain is an asshole… It began to stop doing those paralysis/dreams! > > I have the theory that sometimes the brain enjoys giving your fears and concerns too much power in your dreams, and resents when you figure out a way to deal with the fears that it tosses at you. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/296 "2026-06-16T09:38:03Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I wouldn’t call this the best evidence, but I have some evidence, yes. > > [Cosmic Flashes from the Cold War: Dr. Beatriz Villarroel’s Astonishing Links Between Sky Transients, Nuclear Blasts, and Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena](https://uapf.substack.com/p/cosmic-flashes-from-the-cold-war) I’ve looked quite deeply into this result, and so have the citizen skeptics at Metabunk; the ‘flashes’ from a network of pre-1957 satellites are very short, and essentially indistinguishable from flaws in the Palomar plates made during the 1950s. The only really significant result is that these flaws appear to have a deficit in the locations where Earth’s shadow would have fallen, so they might represent actual objects in geosynchronous orbit; but from our analysis the plates show a number of different distribution patterns which are probably associated with the process of making them over the years. On top of that the idea of surveillance satellites in geosynchronous orbit is a ridiculous idea (too far away), and so is the idea that these reflections (known as glints) all last less than a second. I’ve seen satellite glints (and seen a lot of photos of geosynchronous satellite glints), and they nearly all last longer than a second. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/297 "2026-06-16T13:57:17Z")
How does investigating UFOs benefit humanity? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/298 "2026-06-16T14:49:34Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How does investigating UFOs benefit humanity? If I (very briefly) put on my UFO believer’s hat, I could say that contact with an alien (or contraterrestrial) civilisation could potentially benefit us immensely. If Cryptoterestrial is correct, then these non-human intelligences might have technology that is close to magical, which would be necessary if the sightings really show what they are supposed to show. Bur (taking my believer’s hat off again) it is much more likely that these sightings have all been misinterpreted, and people have made certain fundamental errors when interpreting their observations. One of the most common mistakes is the ‘parallax illusion’; pilots are especially prone to this, since they tend to assume that a distance object is either closer or further away than it really is. This means they grossly misunderstand the speed, direction and manoeuvrability of the phenomenon they are looking at. Pilots make this mistake because they are trained to assume that the phenomenon they are looking at is roughly plane-sized; in combat this is a good assumption, but it is not useful when the phenomenon they are looking at is a small balloon, Chinese lantern or a bird, or a large and distant object as a distant airliner, satellite, meteor, star or planet. Witnesses have misidentified, filmed, and reported all of these, and it is sometimes tricky to uncover the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/299 "2026-06-16T14:52:05Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > If I (very briefly) put on my UFO believer’s hat, I could say that contact with an alien (or contraterrestrial) civilisation could potentially benefit us immensely. But if, as per the OP, they will only reveal themselves when they’re ready, what’s the point of looking? Nothing we do will make a difference anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/300 "2026-06-16T14:52:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Testimony is the worst form of evidence. Hard to argue with that; and yet our entire system of criminal justice is largely founded on it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=16)