# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/301 "2026-06-16T14:54:11Z")
I thought it was largely based on evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/302 "2026-06-16T15:07:16Z")
Twelve jurors have to largely accept on faith that police investigators are telling the truth when it’s claimed that there is evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/303 "2026-06-16T15:22:12Z")
UFO’s are a way for people to pretend to be important by asking questions (that have already been asked before) and accepting vague unfalsifiable speculation (often contradictory) that never ends in place of hard evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/304 "2026-06-16T16:22:35Z")
And, either coincidentally or algorithms, this came by today: > **[This 11-point scale helps spot UFO reports worth investigating](https://bigthinkmedia.substack.com/p/a-new-scale-for-spotting-ufo-reports?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2863167&post_id=202188498&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=2upwix&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email)** > > The modern playground was more than a place to play — it was a blueprint for a new kind of upbringing. (for some unfathomable reason, the thing about playgrounds is from a previous article). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/305 "2026-06-16T22:01:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > so they’ll do imaging and/or exploratory surgery. And as soon as they take it out of you, before they can even look at it, some mysterious men in dark suits and glasses, or perhaps in a regular business suit flashing an FBI badge and smoking unfiltered Morleys, will take it away under national security, or the doctor will see a flash and won’t even remember taking it out. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/306 "2026-06-16T22:37:19Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > On top of that the idea of surveillance satellites in geosynchronous orbit is a ridiculous idea (too far away), and so is the idea that these reflections (known as glints) all last less than a second. I’ve seen satellite glints (and seen a lot of photos of geosynchronous satellite glints), and they nearly all last longer than a second. That might have a purpose other surveillance for all I know. Thanks for saying what you think, anyway. (I mean that.) With that said, I circumstantial evidence that seems relevant had to do with the coincidence with UFO sightings and with nuclear tests. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/307 "2026-06-16T22:38:53Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I agree with with you that that is a great idea you should take to heart. I know _I_ did, and it made dismissing those ideas even easier. I’ll just think of you as Oscar the Grouch from now on, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/308 "2026-06-16T22:40:29Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > All of the evidence, or lack thereof, strongly suggests aliens have never visited Earth. As I said in my inaugural post here, I believe in UFOs but doubt it has anything to do with extraterrestrials. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/309 "2026-06-16T22:44:41Z")
@GIGObuster: Sleep paralysis doesn’t exactly explain encounters with entities in the middle of the day, say. With that said, yes, I think that sleep paralysis does account for some of the supposed entity encoders. (I have a great sleep paralysis story that happened to me but I don’t want to sound more deluded than I already do to some of you.) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/310 "2026-06-16T23:04:39Z")
If you find it easier than providing the actual best evidence you say you have, go for it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2026, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/311 "2026-06-16T23:29:44Z")
Moderating: > [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I’ll just think of you as Oscar the Grouch from now on, okay? We don’t allow personal attacks outside the Pit on this Board. Don’t do this again. You should probably review our rules: [SDMB Terms of Service](https://boards.straightdope.com/tos) [Rules for Great Debates Forum](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/new-rules-for-great-debates-and-elections-january-2020/845726) ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2026, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/312 "2026-06-17T00:41:59Z")
@Czarcasm you haven’t commented on the above links and their reasons for their not satisfying you. let me turn the tables on you. at base, I believe in an unconventional/paranormal explanation for UFOs because the conventional explanation does not suffice. at minimum, we have something that causes people to have vivid waking dreams with no obvious cause. at _minimum_. let’s switch things around. why do not provide your best evidence against the paranormal nature of UFOs? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2026, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/313 "2026-06-17T00:49:19Z")
You don’t get to “turn the tables” until you put something on the table in the first place, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2026, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/314 "2026-06-17T04:25:54Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > @GIGObuster: Sleep paralysis doesn’t exactly explain encounters with entities in the middle of the day, say. With that said, yes, I think that sleep paralysis does account for some of the supposed entity encoders. (I have a great sleep paralysis story that happened to me but I don’t want to sound more deluded than I already do to some of you.) Well… there is indeed a shrinking gap for that “god of the gaps” argument from you. The argument you have is being reduced constantly. The **shrinking argument** describes how (in this case) scientific progress and better evidence continually pushes Crypto and extra terrestrial explanations out of unexplained areas, rendering the “gaps” and the alien explanations to fill progressively smaller ones. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/315 "2026-06-17T16:16:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The **shrinking argument** describes how (in this case) scientific progress and better evidence continually pushes Crypto and extra terrestrial explanations out of unexplained areas, rendering the “gaps” and the alien explanations to fill progressively smaller ones. Those mysterious airships are perhaps vessels from a lost kingdom hidden in the remote interior of darkest Africa! What? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2026, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/316 "2026-06-17T18:28:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well… there is indeed a shrinking gap for that “god of the gaps” argument (snip) This is eaxctly my argument against Jacques Vallee and his ideas of unknow entities from locations unknown. He made a very good argument against the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which I agree with; but in order to explain the bizarre nature of UFO/UAP encounters, he invented a completely undefinable ‘extradimenional’ concept, which can basically be anything you want it to be. The UFOs of the gaps. At least Cryptoterestrial’s ‘cryptoterrestrial hypothesis’ is based on this Earth, not Fuller’s. However; > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Where do these non-humans dwell? You claim they are from earth yet have never been seen. How do they exist? Do they have corporeal bodies? If so, what do they eat? How do they excrete? How do they reproduce? Any race of ‘cryptoterrestrials’ would have left some traces on Earth; fossils from their distant past, genetic material, biological waste, agriculture, any kind of advanced technogy at all. But they appear to have left nothing. This is exactly equivalent to being non-existent. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2026, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/317 "2026-06-18T08:55:46Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Any race of ‘cryptoterrestrials’ would have left some traces on Earth; fossils from their distant past, genetic material, biological waste, agriculture, any kind of advanced technogy at all. But they appear to have left nothing. This is exactly equivalent to being non-existent. And since they couldn’t have evolved _sui generis_, there would have to be thousands and thousands of species related to them - an entire kingdom of life. Where are they? I can accept - barely - that the non-humans are hiding from us on purpose, but what about the non-cats? The non-rats? The non-birds? Where are they? ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/318 "2026-06-18T19:53:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As others mentioned (even the ones you mention as being “good” researchers) the phenomenon might as well point to altered mind effects, psychological religious states, etc. > > Not extra or crypto terrestrial beings. At bare minimum (ignoring the physical evidence), the mental effects need explaining. and conventional theories can’t do the job. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2026, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/319 "2026-06-18T20:00:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > And since they couldn’t have evolved _sui generis_, there would have to be thousands and thousands of species related to them - an entire kingdom of life. Where are they? I can accept - barely - that the non-humans are hiding from us on purpose, but what about the non-cats? The non-rats? The non-birds? Where are they? excellent question. perhaps the CT’s relatives live alongside us in a conventional way. or perhaps the CTs belong to a shadow biosphere and they attained a level of sentience which the other organisms didn’t. > **[Shadow biosphere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_biosphere)** > > A shadow biosphere is a hypothetical microbial biosphere of Earth that would use radically different biochemical and molecular processes from those of known life. Although life on Earth is relatively well studied, if a shadow biosphere exists, it may be unnoticed because the exploration of micro-organisms targets primarily the biochemistry of macro-organisms. > It has been proposed that the early Earth hosted multiple origins of life, some of which produced chemical variations on life as we know i... ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2026, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/320 "2026-06-18T20:07:15Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Any race of ‘cryptoterrestrials’ would have left some traces on Earth; fossils from their distant past, genetic material, biological waste, agriculture, any kind of advanced technogy at all. But they appear to have left nothing. This is exactly equivalent to being non-existent. this makes many assumptions. the assumption, for example, that we would recognize fossils as the ancestors of intelligent life, or that they would have agriculture or technology. scientists have done research on how long remnants of a technological civilization would persist and concluded not as long as you would like to think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=17)