# What are UFOs if they're NOT alien spacecraft? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2024, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108 "2024-02-26T17:14:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2026, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/401 "2026-07-29T23:05:08Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > meant to mention yesterday that **the motive for hiding evidence about NTI is unclear to me. It seems like a great way to get more power** (“we need more surveillance to deal with NTI”) and more money (“tax revenue is needed to deal with the alien menace”), and to distract from current scandals (“Forget Watergate - it’s unimportant compared to the UFO issue”). But instead by your suggestion, the government has declined these opportunities. emphasis added. they could hardly take advantage of UFOs given that the topic remains just barely in the Overton window, if at all. I attribute that to deliberate misinformation but also to the existence of independent hoaxers. as for the motive to keep them secret, given the timespan involve, never mind my outsider status, hard to say. but the ostensible reason has had to do with not exposing the public to ontological shock. particularly in terms of the religious consequences, IMO. a more selfish reason has to do with not incurring backlash and for corporations to maintain monopolies on NHI-based technology. although, I do find it strange that not only the US but other governments have kept quiet. perhaps they actually know pretty much nothing. at any rate, I think that the documentary _The Age of Disclosure_ goes into it a bit. I have seen the documentary but I don’t remember whether or not it odes. you also might want to go through r/ufos on Reddit where they’ve talked about “why keep it secret?” a number of times. answering your second question, you’d have to do two things. one, give a natural explanation for why people have vivid waking dreams lasting hours. no, sleep paralysis doe snot account for it. also, I do _not_ mean cases of addictions recovered under hypnosis. because suggestibility, duh. seance, you’d have to show me records of the US purposefully fooling the public (with technology that I don’t think exists, at least didn’t it, say the 1970s). although I do think that mundane advanced technology does account for some percentage of the cases. I can, for sure, imagine that the US government knows far less than claimed and have built up the disclosure movement for its purposes. physical phenomena and the entity encounters… well, that would take a lot of disproving. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > You still miss it, Sleep paralysis and vivid dreams are not the same. not vivid dreams. vivivd _waking_ dreams. I only used “dreams” for convenience. this has to do with semantics, anyway. you know what I meant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2026, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/402 "2026-07-29T23:39:01Z")
Your ability to turn any evidence against your theories into evidence that somehow _support_ your theories lead me to ask this very important question: What kind of solid evidence would you accept as proof that your theories are probably wrong? Are your theories disprovable at all? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/403 "2026-07-30T00:39:19Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > not vivid dreams. vivivd _waking_ dreams. I only used “dreams” for convenience. this has to do with semantics, anyway. you know what I meant. Not really, when I looked at research, Vivid dreams also included vivid _waking_ dreams, And research points at [vitamin intake changes](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8451217/), [lack of sleep](https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-a-false-awakening-3014835) or[some drugs](https://scitechdaily.com/dmt-creates-vivid-waking-dream-state-in-the-brain-its-like-dreaming-but-with-your-eyes-open/) as the main reason, not extra or crypto terrestrials. Seems that you try, and fail, to make things fit to where your bias goes. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/404 "2026-07-30T01:45:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Basically, to the best of our knowledge, UFOs are…not. Correct. IMO, there’s a very low probability we will find life - within the next few hundred years, perhaps few thousand years - outside of Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2026, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/405 "2026-07-30T01:50:09Z")
The best part of this answer is that if solid evidence is presented I am willing and able to change my mind. Until then, there are innumerable questions out there to deal with and my lifetime is limited. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/406 "2026-07-31T22:34:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think it was the other way around. The military supported the idea of “flying saucers from outer space” to divert others from looking inward instead of outward. a real possibility. at the same time, the UFO phenomena itself exists. > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > IMO, there’s a very low probability we will find life - within the next few hundred years, perhaps few thousand years - outside of Earth. oh, a Residents fan! but on the actual topic of this thread: as I have stated, _yes_, I believe in UFOs as a paranormal phenomenon. _no_, an extraterrestrial origin for them seems to me one of less plausible explanations. hence my username. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/407 "2026-07-31T22:38:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And research points at [vitamin intake changes](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8451217/), [lack of sleep](https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-a-false-awakening-3014835) or[some drugs](https://scitechdaily.com/dmt-creates-vivid-waking-dream-state-in-the-brain-its-like-dreaming-but-with-your-eyes-open/) as the main reason, not extra or crypto terrestrials. I have experienced hallucinations from lack of sleep and nothing like entity encounters took place. in one instance, some red lettering on a blue background jiggled like jelly. I noticed this right away as a hallucination, as most people would. on the second occasion, I heard a voice speaking to me for half an hour. classic schizophrenia. it wore off. these waking dreams also often involve more than one person at the same time. so, the make the conventional explanations work, you have to think: - sustained hallucination involving multiple senses - convincing enough for a person really to believe it totally - not only a hallucination but focussed on particular imagery and themes (the media can’t count for all of it, particularly not for cases from, say, the 1910s) - sometimes witnessed by more than one person ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/408 "2026-07-31T22:44:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The best part of this answer is that if solid evidence is presented I am willing and able to change my mind. Until then, there are innumerable questions out there to deal with and my lifetime is limited. I think I’ve explained that. at this point, paperwork suggesting an extensive hoax using high tech. (t would have to involve high tech. actually in many cases anachronistically advanced tech. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/409 "2026-07-31T22:49:05Z")
AFAIK the preponderance of reported (yep, no hard evidence remains really) shared dreams are about common desires or goals. Not Crypto creatures. [https://medium.com/@mrinaljyotichoudhury/shared-dreams-are-our-minds-connected-beyond-sleep-f7abe5f3d502](https://medium.com/@mrinaljyotichoudhury/shared-dreams-are-our-minds-connected-beyond-sleep-f7abe5f3d502) > **What it suggests:** When people are exposed to large‐scale stressors, many minds produce similar dream content — even without direct sharing of the dream. It’s an example of overlapping symbolic structure rather than direct mutual dreams. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/410 "2026-07-31T22:57:06Z")
And I think I have said that, to date, solid evidence is just about non-existent. It is kind of hard to grasp at the ghost of a straw. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/411 "2026-07-31T23:02:26Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > I believe in UFOs as a paranormal phenomenon. And your evidence for ~~UFOs~~ paranormal phenomenon is? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/412 "2026-07-31T23:20:15Z")
> [@Cryptoterestrial](#): > > emphasis added. they could hardly take advantage of UFOs given that the topic remains just barely in the Overton window, if at all. I attribute that to deliberate misinformation but also to the existence of independent hoaxers. You argue that the government can’t use the existence of UFOs as a convenient way to gain power and distract from scandals because UFOs are outside the Overton window, but you also argue that the government are among the people pushing UFOs outside the Overton window. This seems contradictory or incompetent on the part of the government, which is otherwise very consistent and competent at covering up the UFO evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2026, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/413 "2026-07-31T23:21:57Z")
That is not an explanation. That is using an undefined and unexplained pseudoscience to “solve” another undefined and unexplained pseudoscience. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/414 "2026-08-03T22:58:38Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > AFAIK the preponderance of reported (yep, no hard evidence remains really) shared dreams are about common desires or goals. > > Not Crypto creatures. I did not mean the kind of dreams that you have when asleep in bed. I mean the sort of experience that happened to Travis Walton. note that I _do not_ mean material apparently elicited while under hypnosis. I think that in that instance that they make up the “memories”. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/415 "2026-08-03T23:01:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And your evidence for ~~UFOs~~ paranormal phenomenon is? when I describe UFOs as paranormal I mean that no good _conventional_ explanation exists for them. thus, paranormal. I have attempted to prove that throughout the thread, of course. if you want to see what I regard as good proof, go back through the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/416 "2026-08-03T23:03:34Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > You argue that the government can’t use the existence of UFOs as a convenient way to gain power and distract from scandals because UFOs are outside the Overton window, but you also argue that the government are among the people pushing UFOs outside the Overton window. This seems contradictory or incompetent on the part of the government, which is otherwise very consistent and competent at covering up the UFO evidence. over the course of nine decades or so, many things can happen. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/417 "2026-08-03T23:05:53Z")
Having already read the thread, So you have no evidence for paranormal phenomenon either. ---
**Author:** ![Cryptoterestrial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Cryptoterestrial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cryptoterestrial)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/418 "2026-08-03T23:09:42Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > So you have no evidence for paranormal phenomenon either. “paranormal phenomena” does not mean one thing. it means many things, including UFOs. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/419 "2026-08-03T23:15:06Z")
Fair enough. The same applies to the desire to keep a secret. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2026, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108/420 "2026-08-03T23:17:42Z")
It means nothing because there is no evidence for any paranormal ‘’‘’‘phenomenon’‘’‘’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-ufos-if-theyre-not-alien-spacecraft/998108.md?page=22)