# What are you expecting from me on Thanksgiving **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425 "2003-09-29T03:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TVAA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TVAA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVAA)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/21 "2003-09-29T16:44:55Z")
And more to the point: did we have evidence for that cache? Finding WMDs in Iraq doesn’t prove that we knew they were there. Supposedly we had lots of evidence that Saddam was retaining these devices, yes? Well, why hasn’t that evidence been produced? Forget producing the WMDs, produce the evidence that we supposedly had. If the evidence was of high quality and clearly indicated a threat, then perhaps we had a good reason to go to war even if that threat turned out to not be real. The “reasonable time” to produce such evidence would have been _before_ we invaded Iraq. At the time, we had no evidence of any weight. **Scylla** , you might as well admit you were wrong. This refusal to face facts is borderline delusional. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Beaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Grim\_Beaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Beaker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/22 "2003-09-29T16:47:23Z")
As a conservative, I also felt confident that WMD’s would be found. While it is still possible that WMD’s might be found, the chances of that occurring seem less and less with each passing day. It seems unlikely, at this point, that any will be found. Like **Jackmanii** I’m disappointed, angered, and saddened at the administrations performance in this affair. I will _NOT_ be voting for Bush this fall. I would, however, like to stick up for those conservatives who, like myself, fall IMO in the moderate range of the political spectrum. I never implied that Liberals that opposed the war were unpatriotic. I never indicated there would be smooth sailing in Iraq after the war. I never gloated over any reported WMD “finds” after the war started. On the contrary. I fully recognized and understood the points made by those in opposition to the war and I agreed with them. Yet, I also agreed with many of the points _for_ the war at the same time. My opinion was constantly see-sawing back and forth and only settled on a reluctant pro-war stance a day or so before the war began. I _hope_ that the Iraqi people will become prosperous, self-determining, and happy as time passes. It would do much to ameliorate the detrimental effects of our intervention. Based on the current state of affairs, and with our current level of understanding, I refuse to excuse Bush and his poor handling of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/23 "2003-09-29T17:11:24Z")
I would expect for you to be a man of your word. What you posted was crystal clear. No semantic games. No waffling. No partisan namecalling. What you said was clear. There are no WMD’s. You said what you said. The choice is yours- stand by your word, or become just another **Reeder** or **Brutus**. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/24 "2003-09-29T17:32:13Z")
In addition to **Binary’s** list, I would also like a pony. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/25 "2003-09-29T17:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*Grrrrr > > So do Yanks like feeling god or fearing him? \*\* Does god have big tits? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/26 "2003-09-29T18:35:21Z")
Just in case some indignant and humorless person should wander by and take umbrage at my previous terminal sarcastic comments (Hi, **Jodi**!): I’m fully aware of Saddam’s use of poisonous gas and other homicidal acts against his own people, as well as his propensity for violence against others in the region. And he may well have had plans for rebuilding WMD stockpiles and dispersed key building blocks and plans to unknown locations. Unless we have something concrete pretty damn soon to justify all the prewar hype, though, the inevitable conclusion will be that we (define “we” as you like) were conned big time as to the immediate and unique threat that only an invasion would prevent. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/27 "2003-09-29T19:44:29Z")
One thing **I** would like by Thanksgiving is an explanation about the White House’s release of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. I’m no big fan of the CIA, but it seems to me if you take a WMD operative off the table, it makes the task of finding WMDs in Iraq all that much harder. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/28 "2003-09-29T19:55:23Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Yookeroo_ > Does God have big tits? Could God give Himself tits so big that even He could not grope them? ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/29 "2003-09-29T20:09:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*One thing **I** would like by Thanksgiving is an explanation about the White House’s release of the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. I’m no big fan of the CIA, but it seems to me if you take a WMD operative off the table, it makes the task of finding WMDs in Iraq all that much harder. \*\* Linkety-link for those interested in the details on this merging issue for the Adminstration: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=214227](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=214227) ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/30 "2003-09-29T20:32:33Z")
**elf6c** ; Clinton and Lewinsky were a merging issue. _This_ is an _e_merging issue. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2003, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/31 "2003-09-29T23:50:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\ ***elf6c** ; > Clinton and Lewinsky were a merging issue. _This_ is an _e_merging issue. \*\* Best typo correction in a while! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/32 "2003-09-30T00:15:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*You clearly stated that the failure to find WMDs by thanksgiving would be reason enough to assume that Bush’s charges were (in your words) “deliberately fraudulent.” \*\* As Napolean said at Waterloo, “oops.” I did say that. Yes, I do intend to stand by that. > [@](#): > > You also indicated an intention to “rub our noses” in it if WMDs _were_ found. Yeah, but I also said I would run away and make travel plans if they weren’t so I think it’s pretty clear I was being facetious there. Hopefully you can grant that fact. > [@](#): > > \*\*So I think the expectation is that you will remain true to your words and admit that the WMD allegations were bullshit. \*\* If the situation remains as it is, that’s probably a fair expectation. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/33 "2003-09-30T00:38:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, but I also said I would run away and make travel plans if they weren’t so I think it’s pretty clear I was being facetious there. Hopefully you can grant that fact. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. I’ll also predict that if you make the expected concession you will find the ensuing thread to rather more complimentary than taunting. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/34 "2003-09-30T01:15:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. I’ll also predict that if you make the expected concession you will find the ensuing thread to rather more complimentary than taunting. \*\* I wouldn’t want you to extend me the benefit of the doubt. I can always keep to my literal word and run away if you like. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/35 "2003-09-30T02:22:08Z")
For how long? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/36 "2003-09-30T03:09:24Z")
Hmmm…I know that all you get standing in the middle of the road is run over by traffic, but… I think some of you are being unnecessarily harsh with **Scylla**. Of all the conservatives on the boards, he’s probably my favorite. The man has a sense of humor, a wicked writing talent, and he’s perfectly willing to admit when he’s proved wrong. To even imagine posting something like “ **Scylla** is not a person capable of independent thought” is so ludicrous that I honestly read it as irony at first. **december** I can believe someone posting that of. **Svt4Him** as well. But **Scylla**? You’re delusional, **Demostylus**. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/37 "2003-09-30T03:25:04Z")
Well Thanks, jayjay. Just don’t tell my wife that you think I’m thinking independantly. I’m supposed to be a mindless appendage of her will 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/38 "2003-09-30T03:37:20Z")
Yeah, yeah. Everyone knows it’s not your wife who has you wrapped around her little finger. It’s the Scyllette… ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/39 "2003-09-30T03:37:44Z")
I second GRIM\_BEAKER’s post, which represents my opinion exactly. And: Hi, JACKMANNII! What the fuck are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/40 "2003-09-30T13:41:12Z")
So **Scylla** - How would you react if[they found some of the key elements of a WMD program buried in one of their scientist’s back yard?](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/27/iraq/main560695.shtml) It seems to me that all the accusations that, if no actually functional weapons are found, that Bush necessarily lied, are based on the belief that Bush knew ahead of time that there were no WMDs. And I don’t believe that has been established. As the late lamented **december** made clear, it was taken for granted by everyone since the Gulf War that Saddam either had, or was trying to get, WMDs. Some of the anti-Bush partisans posting in this thread have made it clear that they thought so (before the invasion) as well. Evidence to date would indicate that Saddam was hoping to get the sanctions lifted, dig up his centrifuges, fire up the mobile bio-labs, and begin producing WMDs. This was prevented by the regime change Bush brought about. So, what are the indications that Bush knew ahead of the invasion that Saddam did not have WMDs or the elements to produce them? Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425.md?page=3)