# What are you expecting from me on Thanksgiving **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 29, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425 "2003-09-29T03:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/61 "2003-10-01T13:04:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Centrifuges to refine uranium to weapons-grade, and plans for nukes, aren’t part of a WMD program? They found centrifuges? :eek: Perhaps you have a cite for this assertion? All I ever saw were a few old parts for a centrifuge rotor. That’s neither a WMD or even evidence of an WMD program. You do know that civilian reactors, of the sort that Israel bombed in the 80’s, also require enriched uranium, and that several countries are building their own enrichment plants for this purpose ? A few rotor pieces are nothing to get your short hairs twisted into knots over, unless they’re accompanied by _credible_ evidence of an actual weapons program. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/62 "2003-10-01T14:09:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shodan \* > \*\*Centrifuges to refine uranium to weapons-grade, and plans for nukes, aren’t part of a WMD program? What would be part of a WMD program? The scientists to produce them? We have those too. > > I am not sure of the standards here. Earlier, liberals were complaining that the administration wouldn’t settle on one reason for the invasion. Now they are complaining because the one they picked isn’t working out. > [ul][li]The reason for the invasion was regime change.[/li][li]The reason for regime change was because Saddam was not cooperating with the inspection regime.[/li][li]The reason for the inspection regime was to prevent Saddam from developing WMD.[/li][li]Centrifuges and plans are, and mobile bio-labs can be, used to create WMDs. [/li][/ul] > > And I have still not seen any reason to accuse Bush of lying. I repeat, what evidence do you have that he knew ahead of time that Saddam did not have fully functional WMD? > > Bush thought Saddam had WMD. So did everyone else. Bush knew that Saddam had and used WMD in the past. So did everyone else. Bush said he thought Saddam was hiding WMD. So did everyone else. Bush invades Iraq, overthrows Saddam, and starts looking for WMD. None are found (to date). Everyone else says Bush was a liar. > :dubious: > > Regards, > Shodan \*\* 1. They didn’t find anything for refining uranium to weapons-grade, just a few few dusty parts left over from 10 years ago. Even the Bush Adminstration gave up on that claim quicker then you. After being laughed at on the trailers, Bush found out that WMD or WMD claims required proof- not wild supposition. 2. Every time you post “liberals” this and “liberals” that you end of sounding like some foaming mouthed John Bircher. Liberals, Moderates and even some Republican Senators have shown great concern of the WMD claims made by the Bush adminstration (I guess they are liberals too). Only the die hard Bush supporters think that the WMD claims were not way off base. 3. “The reason for the invasion was regime change.” Not according to Bush, Cheney et al in speeches before the UN and Congress. The imminent threat of WMD’s was the primary reason provided. This has been well cited. Only after the abject failure to find ties to Al Queda (although Cheney was claiming them up to 3 weeks ago) or any WMD’s, WMD programs, or even any documents of the non-faked variety has lead to numerous attempts at revisionist history. 4. “The reason for regime change was because Saddam was not cooperating with the inspection regime.” What a riot, the inspectors were in the country when Bush started his drumbeat for War Now, regardless of what the world thought. The inspectors’ work was so vital, that when Clinton bombed Iraq for non-compliance he was a traitor wagging the dog. Search my name and “wag the dog” for numerous Cites on this. 5. "Centrifuges and plans are, and mobile bio-labs can be, used to create WMDs. " How about a Cite for this, as even Bush gave up on those trailers and crude 10 year old broken parts. “So did everyone else”. Really? Seems most of the world though otherwise, as you remember the UN and many of our long term allies knew he did not and wanted to keep the inspectors in Iraq to prove it on way or another. Many of our former allies said the evidence was weak at best and trumped up at worst- and were proven right. There have been **no** WMD’s found, **No** WMD programs found, **No** ties to Al Queda or 9-11 found, **No** strong ties to terrorists found (unlike now, ironically ehough). So, based on your lack of Cites to back up your fantasy as facts approach, and abuse of the one outdated one you did have, your admiration of **december** seems to well placed. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/63 "2003-10-01T14:51:09Z")
Here is a Cite (fancy that!) on WMD’s and Iraq: > [@](#): > > With no chemical or biological weapons yet found in Iraq, the U.S. official in charge of the search for Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction is pursuing the possibility that the Iraqi leader was bluffing, pretending he had distributed them to his most loyal commanders to deter the United States from invading. > > Such a possibility is one element in the interim report that David Kay, who heads the 1,200-person, CIA-led team in Iraq, will describe before the House and Senate intelligence committees on Thursday, according to people familiar with his planned testimony. That’s it? The best their handpicked guy could do-- Hey maybe he was bluffing? So much for all that evidence George claimed they had. I wish I could play Poker against him- I would end up with the keys to the White House. But wait, there’s more: > [@](#): > > This week, the officials expect Kay to say that Hussein never abandoned his ability to develop chemical and biological weapons, and remained prepared to reconstitute his nuclear program once U.N. sanctions were lifted. Data now being collected will confirm that after U.N. inspectors left Iraq in 1998, the Iraqi leader continued to buy commercial equipment that could also be used to develop the prohibited weapons. > > “It is risky to say that he was doing nothing,” Albright said. “Saddam was scheming once we took the boot of economic sanctions and monitoring of his facilities off his neck.” He was **scheming**! They don’t have proof, of course, but once we stopped monitoring him and lifted the sanctions-- oh wait we weren’t about to do any of that. So in other words: He _might_ have done something down the line- because he sure would have liked to have that stuff. That’s what gets you invaded these days? [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25416-2003Sep30.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25416-2003Sep30.html) There is more there about why he might have been bluffing and maybe just maybe he _might_ have had some dual use precuror chemicals. Read the link. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/64 "2003-10-01T16:27:29Z")
Pathetic, isn’t it? The best they can come up with is thought crimes. Saddam was _thinking_\* about bad things. Wait, don’t give Ashcroft any more ideas or we’re all fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/65 "2003-10-01T17:39:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > > Wait, don’t give Ashcroft any more ideas or we’re all fucked. Too late. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/66 "2003-10-01T17:48:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scylla \* > \*\*That’s not changing my mind. The centrifuge thing has been around for several months. > > Nobody’s claiming the centrifuge in the garden was a smoking gun. \*\* Really??? it appears here that _some one_ didn’t get the memo. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/67 "2003-10-01T17:56:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > \*\*Really??? it appears here that _some one_ didn’t get the memo. \*\* You misspelled **Shodan** in your italicized segment above. Hope this helps. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/68 "2003-10-01T18:04:13Z")
pssst - I was going for \* subtle\* ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/69 "2003-10-01T22:29:55Z")
> [@](#): > > …pursuing the possibility that the Iraqi leader was bluffing… Thats what I said! In answer to the question “If he ain’t got them, why won’t he prove it”, thats exactly what I said, he was bluffing! Bluffing! My opinion is now entirely in congruence with the Administrations report which means…which means…well, that _has_ to mean… Omigod. I’m full of shit? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/70 "2003-10-01T22:51:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by minty green_ > > Wait, don’t give Ashcroft any more ideas or we’re all fucked. _Oh no, **Mr. B** , oh no. Don’t think about the [castor beans](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96623,00.html) in the pantry. **Don’t think** about the castor beans in the pantry_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/71 "2003-10-01T23:19:15Z")
Jesus H., **Mr. B** don’t you have any tinfoil in that Godforsaken place you live? We’ll send you some, defending yourself from psychic surveillance is crucial! Remember: the thickness of the foil is not as important as correctly folding the creases of the hat (always counterclockwise!) and correct longitudinal alignment (on the magnetic north-south line for maximum security from telepathic intrusion). Jeez, guy, I’m amazed they haven’t podded you already. You must be pretty hard to find. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/72 "2003-10-01T23:22:36Z")
If no WMD are found by Jan 1, 2004, anybody that votes Bush is a fucking schmuck in my book. Scylla, you might as well eat that crow now, because they ain’t gonna find shit. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/73 "2003-10-01T23:30:53Z")
Actually I’d like to revise that. _If_ by the first day of the new year, we have no more evidence of WMD then we do today, would that effect your vote Scylla? ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/74 "2003-10-01T23:55:20Z")
Sigh. I wouldn’t expect or want anybody to eat crow. It’d just make this godawful, needless war more divisive than it’s already been. I never thought Iraq had WoMD sufficiently threatening to the security of the US to justify invasion, war and occupation. Once Bush committed us–and lots of other people–to the insanity I _hoped_ I was wrong. It’s not exactly reassuring to suspect your government doesn’t have the faintest clue what the fuck they’re doing. The implications of being right in this case went WAY beyond personal ego. I’d much rather be wrong. I’m often wrong about lots of things, so it wouldn’t a real shock, y’know? We aren’t gonna find WoMD. The justifcation was false for the need to go to war, immediately and in the teeth of world opinion. Saddam was a monster but Iraq was not an ovewhelming threat to us. At the most charitable interpretation, the war was ill-conceived and no realistic plans made for stabilising the region. And my country did it. Realizing that is more nauseating than eating road kill, crow or otherwise. What I’d really like is some reasonable plan–and consensus, regardless of partisan politics–on how to salvage the mess. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2003, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/75 "2003-10-01T23:58:49Z")
Send lots of porn and beer? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/76 "2003-10-02T00:15:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. B \* > \*\*Dear **Scylla** , > > Holy fucking shit! There I was all shiny and happy and your CIA post slipped right on by! Are you joking? Please tell me you’re trying to stimulate our minds or _something_, but attaching the CIA analysis is simply amazing. I hope I’m taking it out of context. \*\* I must be missing the joke, because I have no idea what you mean. > [@](#): > > Because if I’m not taking it out of context you, **Scylla** , despite your historical perspective and the voices of all your colleagues and friends, have been propping up Diem. Are you saying you’re getting religion before Tet, but still pointing to the indictment of Bao Dai? ::Think carefully Scylla:: Ummm. If that would be clever and ingenious of me, than that is exactly what I mean. On the other hand if it would be bad than I wouldn’t mean it. Since I don’t understand what you’re saying I think that covers the bases. > [@](#): > > \*\*Your CIA post calls into question the insight of **Diogenes the Cynic** and **DanielWithrow** , through whom I understood my response was too harsh. Now you’ve trodden on their words and their feelings, if I’m understanding you. > > Or am I taking this out of context? > > Yours, > > B \*\* That depends. Would what you are suggesting be a good thing for me to admit to, or a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/77 "2003-10-02T00:17:26Z")
As always, Veb, Well-spoken. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/78 "2003-10-02T00:33:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TVeblen \* > What I’d really like is some reasonable plan–and consensus, regardless of partisan politics–on how to salvage the mess. Me too. And I gotta admit, it’s a stumper. Which is why our leaders should have had the sense not to invent excuses to go into Iraq to begin with. But let me list a few, along with their obvious drawbacks: 1. _Let the Shi’ites - the majority - rule Iraq._ Plusses: it would solve the problem of how to get out. We’d give the country to them, and skedaddle. Minuses: The Sunni and Kurd minorities wouldn’t be too happy. The Kurds would feel downright _betrayed_, and they’d be right about that. 1. _Turn Iraq into a one person, one vote democracy._ Plusses: it would make us feel really good about ourselves, for a little while. Minuses: it’s basically #1, only we hold the wool over our own eyes. 1. _Make Iraq into a federation of three semi-independent provinces._ Plusses: If it worked, it would make everybody happy. Minuses: the balance is tricky. If the provinces are too independent, then Turkey gets unhappy with what it considers a free and independent Kurdistan on its border, and quite possibly invades. If they’re not independent enough, then the Shi’ites might still wind up ruling the whole country. And in between, things might degenerate to civil war anyway. 1. \*Divide Iraq into three completely independent states. \* Plusses: for a moment, everybody’s happy. Minuses: see how fast Turkey and Sunnivale partition Kurdistan. 1. _Now that Saddam’s gone, return Iraq to Sunni control._ Yeah, right. Minuses: after having had ‘their’ country taken away from them, they’re gonna be sore winners once they get it back. Plus, that might result in Saddam’s coming out of hiding and returning to power. 1. _Give it to the Saudis._ Plusses: they might just be able to rule Iraq dispassionately, and be an honest referee of its internal squabbles. I fully expect they’d be willing to invest in infrastructure in return for oil revenues and the additional control of world oil prices that this would give them. Minuses: first of all, nobody’s gonna even _consider_ this one seriously. Second, if it worked, it _would_ turn the Saudis into pretty much _the_ controllers of the price of crude. 1. \*Blow it all up and walk away. \* Plusses: well, it _would_ get us out of there. Minuses: destroying a country in order to save it is _so_ thirty years ago. 1. _Don’t go away mad, just go away._ Plusses: again, it would get us out of there. Minuses: anarchy and civil war can be even nastier than Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/79 "2003-10-02T01:09:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RTFirefly \* > \*\* But let me list a few, along with their obvious drawbacks: > > \*\* Stuffing the genie back into the bottle won’t be easy. There is another option I"ll toss out just for consideration: _9. Place Iraq under unconditional U.N. control and authority._ Plusses: We have zero credibility now but maybe the UN’s broader base could craft a workable compromise. Any solution would have at least reasonable support from member nations to back it. This is really just a variation of your #8–dump it and walk away–but at least there might be hope of eventual order. Minuses: It’d be humiliating for the US and therefore possibly politically unsaleable domestically. The solution would be slow in coming and like any “solution by committee”, wouldn’t really please anyone; just be marginally palatable to buy time. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425/80 "2003-10-02T01:28:11Z")
I want to go back and focus on the centrifuge in the garden for a second, because I think it will serve to illustrate a massively important point that I would like to make. Or maybe I’m just pulling my own crank. Anyway. Shodan has shown up and said “what about the centrifuge.” I simply said that the centrifuge does not illustrate the scale George Bush describes. Others responded to it with things like this: > [@](#): > > Hmm that “find” was neither a WMD nor a WMD program. And since then (June 27th) that “find” was never refered to again. Gee I wonder why? Nice try. I guess the spirit of december lives on with you. Although the article does show nicely expose the bogus trailer WMD claims that Bush tried to use- remember that one? Or is that your next Cite? > [@](#): > > possible evidence. > > of a plan to do something in the future. > > Kinda like all those garden catalogs that I’ve got on my back porch are possible evidence that some time in the future I may attempt to start a garden. > [@](#): > > They found centrifuges? Perhaps you have a cite for this assertion? All I ever saw were a few old parts for a centrifuge rotor. That’s neither a WMD or even evidence of an WMD program. > [@](#): > > hey didn’t find anything for refining uranium to weapons-grade, just a few few dusty parts left over from 10 years ago. Even the Bush Adminstration gave up on that claim quicker then you. After being laughed at on the trailers, Bush found out that WMD or WMD claims required proof- not wild supposition. Than a cite showing an alternative hypothesis for why no WMDs was shown by elf6c, but apparently only for ridicule. > [@](#): > > That’s it? The best their handpicked guy could do-- Hey maybe he was bluffing? So much for all that evidence George claimed they had. I wish I could play Poker against him- I would end up with the keys to the White House… He was scheming! They don’t have proof, of course, but once we stopped monitoring him and lifted the sanctions-- oh wait we weren’t about to do any of that. So in other words: He might have done something down the line- because he sure would have liked to have that stuff. That’s what gets you invaded these days? > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy)…-2003Sep30.html > > There is more there about why he might have been bluffing and maybe just maybe he might have had some dual use precuror chemicals. Read the link. and Minty seconded the comment: > [@](#): > > Pathetic, isn’t it? The best they can come up with is thought crimes. Saddam was _thinking_\* about bad things. > > Wait, don’t give Ashcroft any more ideas or we’re all fucked. * * * I’ll also note that I was defended by a couple of people that I’ve argued over this topic before when I deprecated Shodan’s argument. No offense intended, but it felt a little bit like being patted on the head for good behavior (as Mr. B also seemed to sense.) I think these things typify a major problem that is occuring on these boards in political threads. If it’s a lefty thing, the righties have to attack it. If it’s a righty thing the lefties have to attack it. The responses seem automatic. I do not think that the centrifuge in the garden vindicates Bush. Nonetheless, I think it is an important find. My conclusion of the centrifuge parts (and I think it’s valid honest and reasonable) is as follows. These parts are supposedly the difficult to replace parts and they were hidden deliberately and carefully so that they could be recovered and a centrifuge could be made to enrich uranium. They show an instance of deception of the kind Bush has described. They show the desire to preserve or acquire the capacity to create a nuclear weapon. By itself this single instance is not conclusive. A single bullet found on a floor does not mean there’s an arsenal hidden in the basement. But it’s an important piece of evidence. I think the trick is to not make more or less of it than deserves, but to peg it at the appropriate level. Unfortunately we have one side trying to make it seem like more than it is and the other side trying to make it look less, or nothing. On a board dedicated to fighting ignorance we shouldn’t be defending positions but trying to assign this piece of evidence the merit it deserves. Similarly deprecated is the hypothesis that Saddam was intentionally decieving the world as to his WMD capability. I believed, and still believe that Bush, Blair, Powell and Rumsfeld were sincere in their assertion that Saddam posessed WMDs. Others may not. I believe that there are sound reasons to think that, but I always readily concede that there are sound reasons not to. It is however definitely a possibility. Given that that possibility is true the Saddam as deceiver hypothesis does a very good job of describing subsequent behavior of all the parties concerened in this war. A good hypothesis covers evidence. Now bearing in mind that a hypothesis if far from a theory and even farther from a fact, I would state that in the strict sense of a hypothesis it is a very good one. Instead of being ridiculed this hypothesis should be measured and evaluated. People who feel that Bush is a clear deceiver would be right to criticize me if I was not open to the possibility. They would be right to do so. Yet, these same people who would criticize closed-mindedness in others automatically reject alternate hypotheses. It appears that what I thought was going to happen back last year was wrong. It appears that we will not find widespread WMDs. In fact the possibility for finding any is diminishing. This report tomorrow should be very important. Trying to beat up this report tomorrow will serve no useful purpose. Trying to make more of the evidence it describes (if any) than is warranted is similarly without purpose. It’s easy to caught in a rhetorical argument, promoting or defending a position. It’s difficult to try to give these things the proper weight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-you-expecting-from-me-on-thanksgiving/204425.md?page=5)