# What are your electric vehicle plans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614 "2020-10-22T18:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2026 "2025-05-15T04:34:27Z")
I was picturing for a moment a dual 5-15 receptacle with an extra hole in it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2027 "2025-05-15T12:06:25Z")
IANA electrician. But I used to play one at HD on weekends. 😉 ISTM the ground wire _should_ by code be sized to carry the current that might be run through it. Meaning the ground wiring on a 15A branch circuit is too light to be a legit ground path for a 30A branch circuit. To be sure, with modern electrical design in general, and especially with smart loads like EV chargers, the risk of a full current shunt to ground is not large. IMO grounding is almost, not quite, a religious exercise at this point, done for traditional reasons no longer exactly necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2028 "2025-05-15T12:27:55Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > You ever figure out what they are going to pay you for the recalled one? No. They promised the info by yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2029 "2025-05-15T17:43:48Z")
Not being familiar with the brand, what was the recall for? A few years back Bolts were having traction battery failures. The batteries were replaced under warranty but it took an excruciatingly long time for the new packs to be made and sent to the dealer and in the meantime your Bolt was sitting in the dealer’s parking lot. After replacement range was reduced by a third by the charging software for the first 6,500 miles. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2030 "2025-05-15T17:46:36Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Not being familiar with the brand, what was the recall for? Fire risk when charging. They did a temporary “fix” that prevented full charging. They couldn’t truly fix it though, and are buying back 2019 model ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2031 "2025-05-15T17:56:36Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > A few years back Bolts were having traction battery failures. The batteries were replaced under warranty but it took an excruciatingly long time for the new packs to be made and sent to the dealer and in the meantime your Bolt was sitting in the dealer’s parking lot. The Bolts didn’t have to sit at the dealer waiting. They were usable if you didn’t charge above the “hilltop reserve” setting and didn’t fast charge them. For mine, I reserved a battery with my dealer and twelve months later they called when it was available. They installed it overnight at that point. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2032 "2025-05-15T18:24:46Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > This is one of those cases where people reason by analogy and come to the wrong conclusion. It’s true that 10-30 outlets are deprecated and are unsafe for most uses because they lack a ground. It’s just that EV charging isn’t one of those cases. And maybe I’m being cynical, but it is also in the electricians’ interest to recommend against using a 10-30 outlet, because that creates work for them replacing outlets. > [@echoreply](#): > > And if you really care about providing a ground, you can get one of these. Straying from the topic of EVs for a second, the seller markets that adapter mostly as a solution for people with clothes dryers with a 14-30 plug that they need to plug into a 10-30 outlet, which IMO is a bit of a scam. If it’s a clothes dryer you need to plug in, you don’t need an adapter, what you need is to replace your dryer’s power cord. Nowadays the power cord is sold separately from the dryer since the manufacturer doesn’t know what kind of outlet your home has, and for that reason the cord is really easy to swap out. But a lot of people don’t know that, and think they need one of these, or think they need to have an electrician replace the outlet. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2033 "2025-05-15T18:50:37Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > And maybe I’m being cynical, but it is also in the electricians’ interest to recommend against using a 10-30 outlet, because that creates work for them replacing outlets. I kind of doubt it. You can never tell how a customer may or may not use outlets. Even if they swear up and down they will only use it for EV charging, the electrician should be careful about just be saying “Eh, it’ll probably be ok” as general advice. Most people won’t do anything too stupid, but the few that do produce injury, deaths, and lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2034 "2025-05-15T19:47:04Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > ISTM the ground wire _should_ by code be sized to carry the current that might be run through it. Meaning the ground wiring on a 15A branch circuit is too light to be a legit ground path for a 30A branch circuit. There are minimums, and as you say, the ground path for a 15A circuit is going to be too small for a 30A one. But in general, the ground wire can be smaller. Romex 12/2 might have a 14 AWG ground wire, and 10/2 might have a 12 AWG ground. It doesn’t carry any current under normal conditions, so it just needs to hold up to a short circuit until the breaker trips. Also, on a long run, you might want to oversize the main conductors for better efficiency, but there’s no need to do that with the ground. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2035 "2025-05-15T23:14:37Z")
So I just saw this ad which addresses a limited electrical supply as one of the blockers to buying an EV. If I’m interpreting it right, there are two components. The EVSE is a standard J1772 level2 charging box. It is a bit expensive at $699. The second component is a power monitor that is installed in your electrical panel, and it is $159. It uses clamps to measure amperage, so _maybe_ it is a DIY install… The monitor can then control how much amperage the EVSE draws. For example, if you only have 100 amp service, the car could get 24 amps when things are idle, but then if you turn on the oven, which causes the AC to come on, and you start a load in the dryer, it will use less amperage to charge the car, to stay within the 100 amp limit. You’d still have to add a circuit for the EVSE, and that is probably in the $500-3000 range, then another $1000 for this charging setup. That is still much cheaper than a service and panel upgrade. Perhaps other systems that do exactly this exist, but it’s the first one I’ve seen that is for sale now, rather than just an announcement of something coming in the future. And being an ad, it all could be lies and it doesn’t do any of what I think it does. > **[No panel upgrade needed! ELECQ balances EV charging with your home's power load](https://electrek.co/2025/05/15/elecq-power-monitor-cuts-home-ev-charging-bills-by-30/)** > > ELECQ's new Power Monitor places smart EV charging at the core of home load balancing and solar integration. > **[Elecq Home](https://us.elecq.com/pages/elecq-home)** > > Elecq | Smart Home Electric Vehicle Charger | Home EV Charging Solutions charging station, ev charging stations, ev charger, car charger, electric vehicle charging station, ev charging, tesla home charger, fast charger, level 2 ev charger, j1772... ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2025, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2036 "2025-05-15T23:25:21Z")
That is interesting, but there are existing solutions for individual situations. For instance, if you want to share an outlet between your car and clothes dryer, you can get an automatic switch like this: > **[Amazon.com: Smart Dryer EV Splitter,ENDMAN Automatic Power Switch for Dryer and...](https://www.amazon.com/ENDMAN-Smart-Splitter-Automatic-Switch/dp/B0DCVS7F2K)** > > Amazon.com: Smart Dryer EV Splitter,ENDMAN Automatic Power Switch for Dryer and EV,Fast Charge,NEMA 10-30 : Electronics It detects when there’s a load from the dryer and shuts off the EV in that case. If the house service is sized to include the dryer, then it can take an EV as well, as long as they aren’t used at the same time. I built my own relay box to switch between the AC compressor and EV charging. It used the thermostat input as the signal. But boxes like the above just sense current. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2037 "2025-05-16T00:03:10Z")
On a 3-prong 240V socket, the two angled prongs are each 120V in complementary phase and the third prong is the neutral, which electrically “grounds” the circuit (provides the current return path). It is not a ground in the same way as a 3-prong 120V outlet: it _has to_ be there to support the 240V circuit, whereas you can put a regular 2-prong 120V plug into a standard 3-hole 120V grounded socket and it will work just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2038 "2025-05-16T00:09:56Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > On a 3-prong 240V socket, the two angled prongs are each 120V in complementary phase and the third prong is the neutral Not on a 6-30. That has two hots and a ground. The ground should carry no current under most conditions. A neutral line is _only_ necessary if the device needs an additional 120v circuit, say for the tumbler motor or control circuit. Then, the device can use one of the hot lines and the neutral to get that 120v. But the neutral is carrying current in that case. That’s the primary utility of a 10-30 outlet. A 240v EV charger never needs a 120v circuit. Whether the third wire is a ground or a neutral, it will never carry current. It probably won’t be used even for faults. It might be used as a voltage reference, though. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2039 "2025-05-16T00:24:36Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Not on a 6-30. That has two hots and a ground. The ground should carry no current under most conditions. Well, my previous socket showed 125V between the center and either side and 250V across the angled slots. It was marked as a 10-50. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2040 "2025-05-16T00:31:07Z")
Neutral and ground are tied together at the box. When wired correctly, they’ll show 0v relative to each other and 120v vs. either of the two hot lines. But neutral and ground aren’t the same thing. Neutrals carry current, grounds don’t (except in a fault). With a standard 120v outlet, the neutral will carry exactly the same current as the hot. In a 10-30, it’s more variable. The device may only use the two hots and put 0 current on the neutral, or it may all be between one hot and neutral (with the other hot getting 0), or somewhere in between. Depends on the needs. With a 6-30, the third wire is a ground, not a neutral, and therefore should carry no current. The entire load is between the two hots. Anything else is miswiring. Regardless of whether it’s plugged into a 10-30, 6-30, or 14-50, though, an EV charger will only have a load between the two hots. Therefore it’s compatible with all of the above (within the current limits). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2025, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2041 "2025-05-16T00:38:18Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Well, my previous socket showed 125V between the center and either side and 250V across the angled slots. It was marked as a 10-50. Which it should be. The third circuit is neutral which, to either phase in the other two circuits, gets you 125v. This means it will also be carrying current in normal operation. In the chart below the two rows marked 125/250v (10- and 14-) the slash means and not or. [![](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0853/8964/files/NEMA_plug_chart_some_rotated_480x480.jpg?v=1605127706) ](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0853/8964/files/NEMA_plug_chart_some_rotated_480x480.jpg?v=1605127706) ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2042 "2025-05-20T02:58:45Z")
I have now gone over 100000 miles on my 2018 Chrysler Pacifica plug-in hybrid and it has been a positive experience. Right now my calculated MPG is 53 which considering it is a mini-van is quite good. It actually has gotten better over the years as I changed some of my charging habits, found more places where I could charge and nearby places had chargers installed (e.g. a grocery store nearby). I unfortunately do not have a garage, and must take the not recommended route of running a extension cord to the charger (my parking spot is in front of my home, but not next to the curb) and that plugs into the car. It always starts by saying that it will take 12 hours on Level 1 charging, but in my experience it has always been something closer to 10.5 hours The supplied charger is fine, but I bought one that could do both Level 1 or Level 2 and came with two plugs to allow it. There was one place were I needed a third plug that wasn’t included: Nema 14-50P 50-AMP Plug Male to 6-20R/6-15R T-Blade Adapter. I also purchased a Tesla to J1772 adapter because a ChargePoint station I used was converted to a Tesla Destination charger. There have been some safety recalls, but they were just handled by the dealership as part of regular maintenance and I did not notice any particular problems. Overall it has been fine and has met my needs. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2043 "2025-05-20T18:37:39Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Got mine yesterday and submitted my request immediately. So I presume I will get my adapter in about 6 months I got my freebie from Hyundai today! It was exactly 2 weeks since I submitted the request. Now I need a road trip. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2044 "2025-05-22T18:49:26Z")
The Big Beautiful Bill that just passed Congress has a new $250 surcharge for EVs and $100 for hybrids. This is to offset the loss in gas tax revenue which is fair on the face of it. The problem is that unlike the gas tax which is more the more you use, it’s one size fits all. The average driver, according to some calculations, will pay twice as much per year as they would if they were driving an ICE car. People who don’t drive much really get screwed. It would be collected by the states as part of registration. CA already has a state level surcharge for the same reason. Other states do as well. [https://www.barrons.com/articles/republican-new-tax-bill-cuts-wallet-61e7e5a4](https://www.barrons.com/articles/republican-new-tax-bill-cuts-wallet-61e7e5a4) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/2045 "2025-05-22T19:10:35Z")
Yeah, that’s BS. Our former ICE got roughly 25MPH and we drove around 10K per year. That means we paid less than $75/yr with the fed gas tax at $0.183/gallon. So for us, over three times what we used to pay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=100) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=102)