# What are your electric vehicle plans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614 "2020-10-22T18:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/606 "2021-09-10T15:11:56Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > An example of how this can be s problem comes from general aviation. Cessna used to sell thousands of light planes per year I’m not sure general aviation is a good comparison. There are about 200,000 general aviation planes in the US total. It is very easy to saturate a market that small. With something like 285 million cars in the US, even if you’re only selling to people whose old car is not repairable or to new drivers, that is stilling going to be a huge market. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2021, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/607 "2021-09-10T17:25:04Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I’m not sure general aviation is a good comparison. Another reason it’s not comparable is that a new aircraft, or even a significant modification of an existing design, has to go through an expensive approval process by the FAA. So there’s a strong disincentive to make such changes. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2021, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/608 "2021-09-22T13:33:04Z")
I went back to the local Tesla showroom and drove 2 Model 3’s. I drove the Long Range to confirm that it’s handling and braking performance is sufficient—I had no doubt about its acceleration. It’s fine. I also drove a Performance model. As expected, it handles a little better, and brakes a lot better. But I don’t like it shorter range and 20” rims, and I really can’t afford it. So, I took the leap. I ordered a model 3 LR. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/609 "2021-10-01T20:39:04Z")
Finally pulled the trigger here. Ford finally got their ordering page for the 2022 model Mustang Mach E working this morning, and we placed an order RWD, Extended-Range Premium. Now, just gotta wait seven months for them to build it… ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/610 "2021-10-01T21:08:38Z")
I work for an electric company and my employer is always pushing electric vehicles. We even bought a fleet of Chevy Bolts. They’re all currently sitting in the back parking lot since they might burst into flames. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/611 "2021-10-01T21:26:36Z")
Congrats, it’s a cool car. Color? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/612 "2021-10-01T21:30:48Z")
Dark Matter Gray Metallic. Left to my own devices, I probably would have gone with the red. But my wife wasn’t a fan, and I didn’t like the blue, so we settled on the more neutral color. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/613 "2021-10-01T21:37:02Z")
Is the wait time really 7 months or was that hyperbole? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/614 "2021-10-01T22:09:32Z")
Ford’s ordering site really did list the expected wait time at 28 weeks. I actually fear it may be worse than that with the various input shortages (particularly microchips) that are continuing to plague global supply chains. FWIW, the wait for the VW ID.4 was about the same. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/615 "2021-10-02T12:38:11Z")
At Tesla, it’s 6-8 weeks for a Model 3, and 10-12 for a Y. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/616 "2021-10-03T02:07:21Z")
After watching Long Way Up I really want one of the Rivian vehicles. I dabbled around on their website, the pick up truck looks super cool , but the SUV version is probably more sensible. 80grand and I have no idea of the wait time, but I can see one in my future in a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/617 "2021-10-03T02:15:23Z")
I too enjoyed that show, and the Rivian support trucks. I’m not interested in owning a truck, but if I were, and if I had more $$, I’d want a Rivian. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/618 "2021-10-03T02:17:52Z")
Jalopnik seems to like all the gadgets: > **[Your Guide To The 2022 Rivian R1T Electric Pickup's Incredible Gadgets](https://jalopnik.com/your-guide-to-the-2022-rivian-r1t-electric-pickups-incr-1847780830)** > > Multiply the 'cool factors' of the Ford Bronco and the Tesla Model X, and you get the Rivian R1T. It's that cool. We’ll have to see how many they can produce. I’m guess not all that many in 2022, but maybe by 2023 they’ll have ramped up. Tesla had an excellent quarter: > **[Tesla Q3 2021 Vehicle Production & Deliveries | Tesla Investor Relations](https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-q3-2021-vehicle-production-deliveries)** > > AUSTIN, Texas, October 2, 2021 – In the third quarter, we produced approximately 238,000 vehicles and delivered over 240,000 vehicles. We would like to thank our customers for their patience as we work through global supply chain and logistics... Closing in on 1M/year total sales. Won’t make it this year, but almost certainly will hit that the next 4 quarters. They managed to largely avoid the chip shortage problems that others have faced–partly by not having cancelled their chip orders in the beginning, and partly by pivoting to alternate suppliers (which required fast rewrites of their microcontroller code). ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/619 "2021-10-03T02:28:02Z")
Tesla will be hurt by the provisions in the budget bill, as it adds an additional $4500 rebate if you buy an electric car made in a union shop. That’s going to hurt Tesla and Rivian, along with Toyota, Nissan, VW, etc. And since the current union auto workers are not capable of meeting even current demand, it will slow the afoption of EVs in general. Even without that, the competition is catching up to Tesla fast. And if they open their supercharger network to everyone, it will remove on of their current key advantages. Tesla’s market share in EVs is bound to drop. They need to hope that the overall EV market grows fast enough that sales can be maintained or grown despite loss of market share. I also suspect the Cybertruck will be their first big flop. Rivian and Ford (and soon GM) are getting in the game with very strong offerings, and I don’t think Tesla’s designers understand truck buyers. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/620 "2021-10-03T02:29:57Z")
Take a look at the website, they make an SUV version, 3 rows of seats ( it’s a Tahoe size I think) , looks sweet, and yeah given what Rivian did for the show I kind of have a soft spot for them. Just not 80k, right now. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/621 "2021-10-03T02:58:51Z")
The bill doesn’t hurt Tesla; it just doesn’t help them as much as others. Tesla is already playing at a disadvantage; their Federal subsidies ran out long ago. And, well, union shops have an inherent productivity disadvantage. Unions have been one of the biggest obstacles to EVs, so as distasteful as it is, getting them on board is important. Tesla nearly _doubled_ their unit sales in the past year; fact is, they don’t need the extra subsidies. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Tesla’s market share in EVs is bound to drop. They need to hope that the overall EV market grows fast enough that sales can be maintained or grown despite loss of market share. You act like “market share” is somehow a thing in and of itself. It’s not; particularly in a rapidly changing market. The only important thing is that they can sustain or increase their unit sales, because it’s revenue in absolute terms that funds the company. Tesla is very profitable these days and isn’t depending on a massive increase in sales to fund current capital expenditures. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > and I don’t think Tesla’s designers understand truck buyers. They aren’t going after traditional truck buyers. F150 loyalists will buy the electric F150. Others might buy the Rivian. People will buy the Cybertruck who have needs that aren’t met by the traditional truck form factor. And they’ll have a significant price advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/622 "2021-10-03T04:14:37Z")
Not trying to be argumentative and this is a genuine question, what needs would be met by the cybertruck that the traditional truck format can’t? It has a funky shape , and maybe the cover that goes over the flat bed area but the specs and general layout are not that different from other e trucks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/623 "2021-10-03T04:33:08Z")
Trucks tend to be length limited to about 230 inches. So there’s an inherent tradeoff between cabin size, hood length, and bed length. The Rivian has a long hood (with some nice cargo space), a large cabin, but only a 4.5 foot bed. The electric F150 has a 5.5 foot bed, but presumably a slightly shorter cabin and maybe hood. The Cybertruck has a 6.5 foot bed, a large cabin, but not much of a hood (and therefore no frunk). None of these are inherently better than another, and so people will buy one or another based on their own weighting of the factors. The funky shape also means that the bed supports a retractable tonnaeu cover with much more volume than the alternatives. If you’re hauling a big generator or toolbox or the like, it can go under the tall part of the bed while still being fully covered. Tesla appears to have the best battery prices in the business and if everyone sticks to their pricing, they should have the best range per dollar. While not everyone needs a 500 mile truck, that range will drop a lot for all of them while towing. It’s a much bigger deal if you’re talking 200 miles range vs 80 if you’re pulling a big fifth wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/624 "2021-10-03T04:34:21Z")
Cool thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/625 "2021-10-03T04:52:51Z")
And in case it’s not clear, I hope and expect that all three will succeed at some level. The F150 will probably sell the most, being the most conventional and also riding on brand loyalty. Rivian is targeting the outdoorsy types, even selling a slide-out electric camping kitchen module, but maybe a bit less useful for hauling plywood and such. Cybertruck is partly for Tesla loyalists looking for something more utility-oriented, but is also good for towing/hauling, and has maximum durability. They’ll also be taking much more business from fossil fuel vehicles than from each other. Someone that picks a Rivian over a Cybertruck isn’t taking business from Tesla, since they don’t sell a truck; they’re taking business from an ICE vehicle. Ford probably has the most to lose here, not from the electric F150 but from the ICE models. I’m really glad at the diversity we’re seeing so far. Even aside from the emissions, ICE vehicles–and trucks in particular–have been stagnant for a long time. This is sort of a Cambrian explosion of vehicles enabled by the flexibility in form factor that EVs enable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=31)