# What are your electric vehicle plans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614 "2020-10-22T18:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1006 "2023-05-31T04:41:10Z")
Very interesting. So do you think we are looking at a situatiin where there’s a Ford/Tesla network and a competing one? Or is this eventually a winner take all deal, with one automaker after snother jumping ship to Tesla and they jointly start the mother of all buildouts and just crush the competition? Antitrust doesn’t apply because it’s really a standards war, and we’ve had plenty of those. I owned a Betamax… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1007 "2023-05-31T04:46:26Z")
At this point, I’d say it’s 50/50. If GM or another big maker announces a similar deal, I’d say CCS is dead. But until that time comes, it’s really hard to say. It wouldn’t shock me if some smaller makers jump ship, like Rivian. Aptera is already onboard, though they’re barely a legitimate company. I think we’d need to see a big name to really push it towards a winner-take-all outcome. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1008 "2023-05-31T06:07:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So do you think we are looking at a situatiin where there’s a Ford/Tesla network and a competing one And to make it even more annoying, it could be a different standard in the US/Canada than in Europe or the rest of the world. Teslas in Europe are sold with a J1772/CCS receptacle, because that is mandated. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Model 3 users need a retrofit that costs $450 Just to be balanced, an argument against the Tesla connector. One of the “dead fronts” in the charge receptacle on my car is broken. They’re the plastic covers on the metal pins in the charging port. Tesla already had a service bulletin about replacing these because the old design would break, and supposedly mine were replaced under warranty, but now that I’m out of warranty, one of them is broken. It’s just a plastic cover, and the car charges fine at home and with my J1772 adapter, but I’ve not tried supercharging since it broke. So, do I spend $50 to repair it? That’s actually a fair price for somebody to come to my house, not electrocute himself, and do 10 minutes of work. Or, do I put the $50 towards replacing the whole charge assembly with the CCS upgrade? I’d hate to spend $50 now, just to get the CCS upgrade next year. I don’t _think_ I’ll need the CCS upgrade ever, but there are a few destinations in the state that have one or two CCS high speed chargers, and no Tesla chargers. Or, just leave it broken. I think it will work fine broken, but I’d hate to be at supercharger in Idaho and have the cable refuse to lock and charge for some reason. Usually that is a problem because somebody else’s dead front broke off in the supercharger cable. I wonder if CCS has this problem? I drive by the service center on my commute to work, so I should stop in, try to supercharge, and see about buying the part, it’s only $12. Replacement looks pretty easy, other than the not electrocuting yourself part: “Put on the safety glasses, HV insulating gloves, and leather glove protectors.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1009 "2023-05-31T14:17:50Z")
This may not be a super big deal, but Freewire has anounced they will add NACS to their chargers starting about a year from now. > **[Freewire CEO commends Ford and Tesla, vows to add NACS connectors to its...](https://electrek.co/2023/05/30/freewire-ford-and-tesla-vows-to-add-nacs-connectors-chargers-ev/)** > > Less than a week after American automotive powerhouses Tesla and Ford announced a partnership to integrate the former’s North American... For those unfamiliar with Freewire, they make chargers that take low voltage current and put out DCFC. This avoids having to install a big transformer. Also reduces the red tape involved in installation. They don’t have a network of chargers, but rather supply chargers to companies that do. I assume this means that their customers will be able to order chargers with whatever combination of CCS, NACS, or CHAdeMO plugs they desire. (Each charger has two connectors.) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1010 "2023-05-31T14:27:39Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > With EA, they have tiny numbers of stalls, they’re often broken, the car doesn’t know if they’re broken, the max charge rate isn’t obvious, the payment system sucks, etc. This is so true. I love my EV, but the state of non-Tesla fast-charging is embarrassing. Even though I rarely drive long distances, I will jump on the first opportunity to get onto Tesla’s charging network. Say what you want about Musk or Tesla vehicles, but they have done charging infrastructure soooooo much better than anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1011 "2023-05-31T14:33:50Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > I love my EV, but the state of non-Tesla fast-charging is embarrassing. We have two EVs. We only take our Tesla on long trips. The charging is fast and easy. Plus, we’re grandfathered in for “free charging for life.” I have used the non-Tesla supercharges two or three times. There’s usually an issue of some kind that makes it a hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1012 "2023-05-31T14:37:29Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > We have two EVs. We only take our Tesla on long trips. The charging is fast and easy. My family as well. Two EVs, one stays in L.A. county, the Tesla is for near or far. The Tesla charging network is the single best reason to buy a Tesla vs another electric car. Until other cars either join the network or build out their own, that advantage is not going away. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1013 "2023-05-31T14:54:18Z")
Of course, being the first company to try to sell EVs on the mass market forced Tesla to build out its supercharger network. It’s less urgent for later companies, particularly as third-party chargers become available. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1014 "2023-05-31T17:47:29Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Of course, being the first company to try to sell EVs on the mass market forced Tesla to build out its supercharger network. It’s less urgent for later companies, particularly as third-party chargers become available That’s true, but Tesla didn’t have to have such an excellent network. I can’t recall any real complaints about it other than they haven’t expanded to this or that route. Considering all the routes there are in this country and Canada, you have to cut them some slack about that. It’s impossible to do them all at once. I rarely hear anything good about the other networks. Lots of chargers out of order, problems getting the charging to start, problems with billing, too few chargers at a high volume location, etc. OK, thinking about it, I do recall other complaints about Tesla’s network. Those complaints were about lines at Superchargers on real busy days, such as the day before Thankgiving and the Sunday after. Mostly in California on the route between LA and the Bay area, but also between LA and Vegas. They seem to have addressed those complaints, at least for now, by greatly expanding the size of the Superchargers along I-5 and I-15. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1015 "2023-05-31T18:32:39Z")
I was surprised to see a whole section of Tesla charging at the local mall. Probably 20 or 30 spaces, mostly open. That mall is not too far from major routes, so maybe it’s meant as overflow Thanksgiving charging or something. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1016 "2023-05-31T18:41:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I was surprised to see a whole section of Tesla charging at the local mall Sometimes Tesla pays to rent parking spaces, so the mall might be making a small amount on that, but probably the mall is just letting Tesla use the space for free, and Tesla pays for the chargers, upkeep, and electricity. In return, the mall gets additional traffic from people that plan to spend 10-45 minutes there. Even if most of them just come in and use the bathroom, lots will still get some food. And somebody walking around the mall to pass 30 minutes while the car charges is much more likely to make a purchase than somebody passing the mall on the freeway. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1017 "2023-05-31T20:01:33Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I was surprised to see a whole section of Tesla charging at the local mall. What city is the local mall in? Is that site on [this map](https://supercharge.info/map)? Quite possibly it’s not, since that map only has Superchargers and not the destination chargers found at many malls and stores. (Note: that map is not the official Tesla charger map, but rather one maintained by Tesla drivers. I find the user interface to be a bit more friendly than the official one.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1018 "2023-05-31T23:49:25Z")
I’d rather not say where i live, sorry. But why are you asking? I was surprised at how many there were, but not that they were there. I see Tesla chargers all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1019 "2023-06-01T00:12:39Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I wonder if CCS has this problem? I’m not sure about that specifically, but CCS does have a mechanical clip attached to the handle, and which must engage to start charging. Basically, the thing that prevents the user from pulling out the charger while it’s in use. I’ve heard stories of it being broken, which is very likely since it’s kinda fragile, will go through tens of thousands of cycles, and is subject to the worst and most violent end-users. The Tesla charger also has a latch, but it’s on the car, so it goes through fewer cycles and those cycles are as gentle as the user requires. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1020 "2023-06-01T01:06:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But why are you asking? Mostly just curiosity. Never mind if you don’t want to say. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1021 "2023-06-05T21:25:27Z")
If the federal tax credits for EVs are extended to motorcycles, then my next EV will only have two wheels. Just a proposal at this point, so I’m not holding out much hope for $7500 of an $20k bike. > **[Electric Motorcycle Tax Credits: Two Senators Try To Expand Program In US](https://www.rideapart.com/news/670640/electric-motorcycle-parity-act-us/)** > > The Electric Motorcycle Parity Act of 2023 is new legislation introduced by US senators Baldwin and Casey that would offer tax credits for electric motorbikes. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1022 "2023-06-06T05:09:11Z")
Article about how not all EV owners are left-wingers. Which I knew. Somewhere I saw stats that EV ownership is divided about 60-40 Dem-Rep. Forty percent is still a lot of people. (gift link) > **[Electric vehicles appeal to conservative buyers sick of gas guzzlers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/05/ev-conservative-buyer-uptick/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjMxMTQ0NDA1IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY4NjAyNDAwMCwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY4NzMxOTk5OSwiaWF0IjoxNjg2MDI0MDAwLCJqdGkiOiI0NTI0YWNmZC0xYWUxLTQ0OWUtOWU2ZC1jMzk3MjljYjk3ZWIiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vdGVjaG5vbG9neS8yMDIzLzA2LzA1L2V2LWNvbnNlcnZhdGl2ZS1idXllci11cHRpY2svIn0._XGhENUBbAWs3vlYObH-Ek9VSEdR7ERd7WsfeRjAIaA&itid=gfta)** > > Electric vehicles are often associated with liberal coastal types who speak of saving the planet. But in this Republican stronghold north of Dallas, more and more drivers are deciding EVs are just common sense. > [@](#): > > Buzz Smith, an electric advocate in Fort Worth who calls himself “The EVangelist,” said he has had executives from Exxon and other oil companies approach him at auto shows and whisper their interest in electrification. “They say they are retiring and their next car will be an EV,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2023, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1023 "2023-06-06T05:38:25Z")
They should appeal to conservatives–perhaps even more so than the left (who, stereotypically, might prefer just having fewer cars via public transport or otherwise). It’s only because of this bizarre chain of reasoning going from environmentalists to climate change to carbon reductions to electrification that it was ever otherwise. But EVs _should_ appeal to a range of positive conservative values, such less dependence on imports. Big trucks aren’t my thing and frankly I see them as pretty ridiculous, but having a range of electrified pickups is going to be pretty huge, I think. They’re superior to ICE models in just about every way except towing over long distance, and I think that’s a relatively small niche. Ford’s F150 is a good start, but we’ll need more than that. Occasionally I see this bizarre form of virtue signaling from the left that some people aren’t buying EVs for the _right reasons_ (i.e., environmentalism), and that this is somehow a problem. Screw that. Sure, it was a factor for me (though not the only one), but if the awesome performance and other things are sufficient for someone else, more power to them. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1024 "2023-06-08T20:43:02Z")
Some news: Like Ford, GM will be moving onto Teslas North America charging standard in the next year, starting with adapters in the interim, and then moving to permanent hardware. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1025 "2023-06-08T20:59:25Z")
Nice! An article on it: > **[GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford in leveraging the EV leader's...](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/08/gm-tesla-partner-on-ev-charging-network.html)** > > GM, like Ford, will begin installing a charging port used by Tesla, known as NACS, instead of the current industry-standard CCS in its EVs starting in 2025. I previously said: > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > If GM or another big maker announces a similar deal, I’d say CCS is dead. But until that time comes, it’s really hard to say. And here we are. Stick a fork in it; CCS is dead (In North America, that is. Europe is different, but so is their version of CCS). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=51)