# What are your electric vehicle plans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614 "2020-10-22T18:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1246 "2023-11-30T21:56:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Because it’s more fun. Downshifting into corners, accelerating out of them, etc. I mean, I get the draw of a manual transmission over an automatic or sluggish CVT in an ICE- a manual transmission offers more immediate user control/response over engine torque than an automatic. My previous car (before my EV) was a manual. EV’s generally behave as if they’re in first gear all the time, except first gear on an EV has the legs to get up to 100mph+. There’s no need to “downshift” into a corner when you’re already there, and never have to leave. Trying to force a synthetic transmission on an EV just seems like artificially taking control _away_ from the driver - the opposite of where I think all the fun comes from driving a manual. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2023, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1247 "2023-11-30T23:12:32Z")
Yup, I know. And a properly set up CVT is faster and more efficient than gears. That’s not really the point. There’s a certain feeling you get when the car revs up, then shifts and kicks you back in your seat that you don’t get from just one big constant shove. Even if the shove is a better way to go. Watch the review. The guy was really skeptical of the fake sounds and the fake transmission, but it really sold him. I’m not a fan of those gimmicks in general, but I’m keeping an open mind about this. It also has drift mode. I would never drift that car, but it’s nice to know tht that they have enough contol over the dynamics to allow an EV to drift. Not an easy task, what with the gigantic weight slung down low across the length of the vehicle. Asidef from the gimmicks, the car is infinitely tunable in terms of chassis and power distribution, its chassis is stiffer than the regular Ioniq 5, the steering is tighter, and in general they tried to really make it a track capable sports car. As EVs go up in price, it’s not enough anymore to just say, “Hey, buy an EV and save the planet”. Car companies have to find things that EVs do BETTER than Ice cars, and push them. Make better cars, and people will pay a premium for them. Tesla was the first company to get this. Hyundai appears to have gotten the message. Make it fun, and you can capture people who otherwise wouldn’t be caught dead in an electric car. All those videos of Tesla Plaids beating the fastest sports cars in the world on the track go a long way towards making Teslas desirable for gearheads. Great way to expand your market. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1248 "2023-12-01T14:39:20Z")
I can’t find it, but there was one where a Bugatti Chiron Supersport _barely_ edged out a Model S Plaid in the quarter, and the presenters were over the moon. Uh, guys? A $3.5 million dollar supercar edges out a $100,000 EV? That’s embarrassing, not exciting. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1249 "2023-12-07T15:31:51Z")
Recently bought a 2024 Kia Niro PHEV. We drove (and really liked) the full EV version as a rental in CA, but for our regular middle-America lives we considered and at _this_ time could agree on the PHEV. _I_ think the full EV would work for us: our most common trip that’s not super local is to another city about 120 miles away. Wife had serious range/charger anxiety, though. So the PHEV is awesome, about 30 miles all-electric range, which basically means on any halfway normal day for us the ICE never ever turns on (I live about 4 miles from work, and most other stuff is within about a 10 mile circle). Hybrid mode for the longer trips is ok, definitely better mileage than any of our older ICE vehicles, but a _little_ disappointing from the advertised mileage. Specifically, it’s supposedly able to do 54 mpg highway. Importantly, it seems to get that at 55-60 mph. The interstate here is a 70 mph highway, though, so at 70-75, the mileage seems to drop into the 30s. We took a long trip in it recently, and I feel like I was kind of distracted _trying_ to drive like an old grandpa. Even with the ICE on the car is _very_ quiet and smooth and ended up going very fast all by itself (I swear, officer). All things considered, though, 37-38 mpg is way better than the 22 or so our old ICE got (at 70+mph), plus all the all-electric city driving at miles per gallon brings the _overall_ accumulated average up to close to triple digits. So that’s pretty cool. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1250 "2023-12-07T15:37:50Z")
Yeah, I was really impressed with the Niro. Nice vehicle. And it sounds like a PHEV was a good choice for your driving requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1251 "2023-12-07T15:42:11Z")
Yeah, the highway mileage is reported based on a series of tests. A variety of speeds and acceleration profiles are used, so it’s not surprising it doesn’t line up with doing a constant 75mph. Dropping ~25% for 75mph from the estimated highway fuel economy is reasonable. Doing ~55 or so should get you closer to the estimate. You can and do see that sort of drop for a standard ICE as well, at least in % terms, not in absolute ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1252 "2023-12-07T15:52:12Z")
Aerodynamic drag goes up with the square of velocity, so not surprising that 70-75 results in much worse mileage than 55 mph in an SUV. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1253 "2023-12-07T17:19:48Z")
Yep, I get all that, and it makes sense. It’s just…you _can’t_ do 55 mph on the interstate around here 😵 And our other car, a Mazda CX-5, gets a reasonable 35 mpg or so highway, but like I said actual is about 22 or so at 70+, so well aware of all that. And as others in the thread have noted, EVs have the same efficiency issues with drag, so “250-mile” range _quite probably_ doesn’t equal anywhere near that in any circumstance where someone’s actually driving 250+ miles in the US. That said, it would be kinda neat if awareness of all this, or the fact that charging an EV takes a bit longer than pumping gas (so having something to do during is nice), creates a little more demand for older-style routes with lower speeds and more local points of interest than your typical interstate-through-the-middle-of-nowhere with limited exit/entry points. I know it won’t. But one thing I’ve noticed in the last several years is Google Maps’ option to use/prefer “fuel-efficient” routes, which takes you on more 55-mph state highways and such when possible, and _quite a lot of the time_ in at least the places I’ve been driving, the difference in drive time is/was something like 5 or 10 minutes over several hundred miles. Negligible! ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1254 "2023-12-07T19:57:19Z")
> [@troub](#): > > And as others in the thread have noted, EVs have the same efficiency issues with drag, so “250-mile” range _quite probably_ doesn’t equal anywhere near that in any circumstance where someone’s actually driving 250+ miles in the US It’s like people forget that “mileage may vary” is a is a thing. It applies to any vehicle. Going faster requires more energy. In my EV I find that traveling 70-80 MPH on the interstates I get about 80% efficiency, which means it took 100 miles of rated range to travel 80 miles, or traveling 100 miles took 125 miles of rated range. If for some reason my average speed is 50 MPH, then I might get 110% efficiency, so 100 miles takes 91 miles of rated range. I wouldn’t say it “evens out”, because on a road trip the distance traveled on fast interstates is probably greater than the distance traveled in a congested city or on slow roads. Of course there are places where congestion might be more common than clear highways, so an EV will do better than expected. For example, I remember always being in traffic the whole time when driving from Philadelphia to Boston, and was actually in traffic probably the whole way from Indianapolis to Boston, and from Boston back to Chicago. So yeah, just like rated MPG, rated range is based on a series of predefined tests the car is put through. When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure, so manufacturers will use technical tricks and lobbying to get the tests to be as favorable as possible. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1255 "2023-12-07T20:07:27Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > It’s like people forget that “mileage may vary” is a is a thing. It applies to any vehicle. Going faster requires more energy. Well, and it’s kind of easy to forget that “highway” mpg is literally talking about different thing than what most people would probably think of “highway” these days? Speed limits have gone up all over and even some state highways are 65 mph now… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1256 "2023-12-07T21:14:23Z")
The EPA uses a high speed test as part of their highway MPG rating. The [high speed test](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml) goes to 80mph. From Page 3, [here](https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/ZyNET.exe/P100IENB.txt?ZyActionD=ZyDocument&Client=EPA&Index=2011%20Thru%202015&Docs=&Query=&Time=&EndTime=&SearchMethod=1&TocRestrict=n&Toc=&TocEntry=&QField=&QFieldYear=&QFieldMonth=&QFieldDay=&UseQField=&IntQFieldOp=0&ExtQFieldOp=0&XmlQuery=&File=D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C11THRU15%5CTXT%5C00000010%5CP100IENB.txt&User=ANONYMOUS&Password=anonymous&SortMethod=h%7C-&MaximumDocuments=1&FuzzyDegree=0&ImageQuality=r75g8/r75g8/x150y150g16/i425&Display=hpfr&DefSeekPage=x&SearchBack=ZyActionL&Back=ZyActionS&BackDesc=Results%20page&MaximumPages=1&ZyEntry=3): [![](https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/tiff2png.cgi/P100IEND.PNG?-r+75+-g+7+D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C11THRU15%5CTIFF%5C00000668%5CP100IEND.TIF) ](https://nepis.epa.gov/Exe/tiff2png.cgi/P100IEND.PNG?-r+75+-g+7+D%3A%5CZYFILES%5CINDEX%20DATA%5C11THRU15%5CTIFF%5C00000668%5CP100IEND.TIF) ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1257 "2023-12-07T21:16:23Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The EPA uses a high speed test as part of their highway MPG rating. The [high speed test](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml) goes to 80mph. So do many of our Oklahoma turnpikes. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1258 "2023-12-07T21:17:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The EPA uses a high speed test as part of their highway MPG rating. The [high speed test](https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml) goes to 80mph. Sure, but it’s only one part of the rating. The other parts of the highway rating test don’t go so high. It’s not going to be a good measure for sustained driving at 80mph ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1259 "2023-12-07T21:19:14Z")
Real world range testing: [Edmunds](https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/electric-car-range-and-consumption-epa-vs-edmunds.html). Most cars do worse than their EPA estimates, but a few outperform. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1260 "2023-12-07T21:36:50Z")
> [@troub](#): > > That said, it would be kinda neat if awareness of all this, or the fact that charging an EV takes a bit longer than pumping gas (so having something to do during is nice), The Ioniq 5 has a great feature: The driver’s seat turns into a recliner. I don’t mean the seatback can be reclined like in any car, but it’s got full reclining with a popout footrest like a LazyBoy. So if you have to wait for an hour for a charge, you can relax. Other EVs should take note: people will be spending a lot of time waiting for charges. Given them something to do. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1261 "2023-12-07T22:27:06Z")
> [@troub](#): > > Yep, I get all that, and it makes sense. It’s just…you _can’t_ do 55 mph on the interstate around here My EV is marketed as a type of Mustang. I _don’t want_ to drive 55 mph on the interstate. And if I’m not actively paying attention, it’s all too easy to hit 90+. In contrast, I had a Fusion energi with only 26 miles of range. In the summer. At 35mph. Without using the AC. And with no passengers. The stupid shit I did to try to get to work (free charging!) without turning on the ICE during December makes me feel really bad. Sorry if you had to drive behind me. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1262 "2023-12-15T15:03:24Z")
I found this article a bit confusing, but it’s pretty clear they’re stopping Bolt production for a bit. > General Motors has announced that it is laying off 1,314 workers at two Michigan plants, including one that produces the Chevy Bolt EV, which the company has discontinued, for now at least. … > GM says it is bringing back the [popular Chevy Bolt EV](https://electrek.co/2023/12/05/gm-confirms-2025-launch-date-next-gen-chevy-bolt-ev/), at least the larger Bolt EUV, with the next-gen model to reemerge on the Ultium platform in 2025. The automaker is phasing out its BEV2 platform and shifting to the Ultium battery architecture, which will be used for its next-gen EVs including the Cadillac Lyriq, Hummer EV, Chezy Silverado EV, among others. > **[GM stops Chevy Bolt production (for now), lays off 1,314 workers](https://electrek.co/2023/12/15/gm-stops-chevy-bolt-production-for-now-lays-off-1314-workers/)** > > General Motors has announced it is laying off 1,314 workers at two Michigan plants, including one that produces the Chevy Bolt EV, which the company has discontinued, for now at least. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1263 "2023-12-15T15:09:44Z")
I’m not sure what GM is doing. Our Lyriq has been sitting in TN for over a month, and I have gotten zero information from GM proper–I have to call the dealer and they have to call GM. It’s been 18 months since our original order–which they lost. Still looking forward to the car, but this is pretty sad for a company that’s had well over a century to streamline logistics. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1264 "2023-12-15T18:32:54Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I found this article a bit confusing, but it’s pretty clear they’re stopping Bolt production for a bit. Yeah, the “temporary” discontinuation was announced a while ago. Very disappointing, as it is one of the few lower-price EVs out there right now. Hopefully, they will bring it back quickly on their new Ultium platform. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1265 "2023-12-15T19:37:01Z")
The SAE certification of the NACS plugs has been completed (translation: the automotive engineers that set industry standards have set the standard for future charging based on the NACS/Tesla charging plug, which has already been adopted as the future plug for almost all EVs to be sold in North America). Based on the Electrek analysis, there are three main points which are very good for simplifying AC charging. This is important because most of the time people will charge on AC at home or work. DC fast charging should mostly be reserved for trips. 1. A standard _receptacle_ on AC chargers. Cars will bring their own cable. This will reduce the expense of installing AC chargers, and prevent damage to the cables when they are not in use. 2. Support for 277 volt AC charging. This is one leg of 3-phase, 480 volt commercial electrical service. Support of 277 volts eliminates the need for expensive and space consuming transformers, which also reduces the expense of installing AC chargers. 3. Up to 52kW of charging through AC, which is expected to be used for buses and heavy duty trucks. Particularly the first two points will make installing AC chargers much cheaper, and will mostly benefit people who will need to rely on public chargers and apartment chargers. > **[SAE's NACS certification is ready, and it’ll fix every EV charging problem at...](https://electrek.co/2023/12/15/saes-nacs-certification-is-ready-and-itll-fix-every-ev-charging-problem-at-once/)** > > SAE has finalized its NACS certification effort, and the new standard promises to fix a \*lot\* of the current issues with EV charging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=61) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=63)