# What are your electric vehicle plans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 22, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614 "2020-10-22T18:45:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1266 "2023-12-16T02:50:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > Adapting the NACS connector is pretty huge. Word is the SAE NACS standard (J3400) will be out soon: > **[SAE's NACS certification is ready, and it’ll fix every EV charging problem at...](https://electrek.co/2023/12/15/saes-nacs-certification-is-ready-and-itll-fix-every-ev-charging-problem-at-once/)** > > SAE has finalized its NACS certification effort, and the new standard promises to fix a \*lot\* of the current issues with EV charging. > [@](#): > > The main reason for this is the standard is preserving NACS’ support for 277 volts, as opposed to the 208-240 voltage of J1772. This simple change unlocks a cascade of benefits that should smooth out several charging problems. > > Why does this matter? 277 V is one phase of a three-phase 480 V supply, which is the form that most commercial utility connections use (particularly those that support DC chargers). This means that secondary step-down transformers are no longer necessary for AC chargers, making EV charging installations cheaper and more efficient. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1267 "2023-12-17T06:49:54Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > The SAE certification of the NACS plugs has been completed Pretty nice. Unbelievable that the J1772 standard didn’t support 277 volt charging already–it obviously has negligible cost and should have been of clear benefit. Part of the argument against NACS in Europe is that many houses have 3-phase power, but relatively low current per phase (like 16 A), and so they really need 3-phase charging, but NACS only has split-phase. But it occurred to me that you can get \>2x the single-phase charge rate with a diode network that rectifies the 3-phase AC into ~500 V DC. Diodes are cheap. The car would need a higher voltage rating for its charger, and work with DC, but most likely the charger already converts to DC first and applies its own chopper circuit. And higher voltage is relatively easy to implement. Ahh well, it’s too late for them now. At least we ended up with the nicer system. Good to see that the SAE got this standardized so quickly. Standards bodies aren’t usually known for their speed. It probably speaks well for Tesla’s internal standardization process (i.e., it isn’t the usual hacky, informal mess that internal standards so frequently are). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1268 "2023-12-19T22:20:02Z")
Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche/Scout adopt NACS: [https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1774](https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1774) That’s it, aside from Stellantis, which currently has no BEVs on sale in the US. I guess someone has to be in last place. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1269 "2023-12-19T22:48:15Z")
Getting back to EV plans…I’ll be in the market for a new car this summer. When I got my current EV, during the chip shortage, Teslas had something like a year lead time. Checking today, it’s more like a month. As I was looking at their website, I noticed something I missed in the past, a lot of their cars are rear wheel drive. Does anyone have an experience with these in the snow? I understand the weight is distributed differently than it is in something with an engine in the front but I have to guess it’s still going to fishtail more than a FWD/AWD/4WD vehicle. Some cursory searches on google says it handles really well in the snow as long as you get a good set of snow tires. Snow tires would (almost certainly) be a deal breaker for me. I’ve got no interest in swapping tires twice a year. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1270 "2023-12-19T22:55:39Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > As I was looking at their website, I noticed something I missed in the past, a lot of their cars are rear wheel drive. I think only the 3 and Y come in rear-wheel drive, but they both have an AWD option. The S and Z are all AWD. At least that is my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1271 "2023-12-19T22:57:26Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > The S and Z are all AWD. The X is AWD. We don’t get much snow here, but it drives well when we get some. I’m looking forward to the Model Z 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1272 "2023-12-19T23:03:37Z")
DOH! 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1273 "2023-12-19T23:11:16Z")
Rear wheel drive is not great in snow, because if the vehicle starts to go sideways it will want to continue to go sideways. Acceleration in a FWD car tend to want to pull it straight because the center of mass is behind the center of the accelerative force. The other reason FWD is better for low traction inly applies to ICE cars - the traction wheels are directly under the heavy engine. Of course in an EV the weight is distributed across the bottom of the car, so it’s not as much of an issue. But you should probably swap tires. All-seasons aren’t great in really cold weather, and are only appropriate for locations that rately get a lot of snow, and don’t get particularly cold. And all-seasons or snow tires will kill summer mileage. I think just going from the low rolling resistance EV tires to all-seasons will cost you at least 10% in range, and as much as 20%. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1274 "2023-12-19T23:42:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Rear wheel drive is not great in snow, because if the vehicle starts to go sideways it will want to continue to go sideways. Acceleration in a FWD car tend to want to pull it straight because the center of mass is behind the center of the accelerative force. > > The other reason FWD is better for low traction inly applies to ICE cars - the traction wheels are directly under the heavy engine. Of course in an EV the weight is distributed across the bottom of the car, so it’s not as much of an issue. > > But you should probably swap tires. All-seasons aren’t great in really cold weather, and are only appropriate for locations that rately get a lot of snow, and don’t get particularly cold. And all-seasons or snow tires will kill summer mileage. I think just going from the low rolling resistance EV tires to all-seasons will cost you at least 10% in range, and as much as 20% I’m sorry, which part of that addressed my question? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1275 "2023-12-19T23:45:54Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I think only the 3 and Y come in rear-wheel drive, but they both have an AWD option. They do, but it’s a considerable price jump. 39k to 46k on the 3 and 44k to 49k on the Y. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1276 "2023-12-22T18:36:51Z")
[Chevy Blazer EV and Cadillac Lyriq will lose tax credit eligibility](https://electrek.co/2023/12/21/chevy-blazer-ev-cadillac-lyriq-lose-tax-credit-eligibility/#:~:text=GM%20has%20revealed%20that%20the,temporary%20due%20to%20minor%20components). Goddam it–this is probably a dealbreaker. Car is still sitting in TN. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1277 "2023-12-23T13:50:00Z")
11 posts were split to a new topic: [Canadian goals re reducing gas-powered vehicles](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canadian-goals-re-reducing-gas-powered-vehicles/995043) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1278 "2023-12-23T13:56:00Z")
Moderating: I’ve just moved several posts to their own thread, as they were a hijack to this topic. @Sam_Stone , reviewing the thread, you have started a lot of hijacks. I would like to remind everyone that the topic of this thread is “what are your electric vehicle plans”. Posts about the overall electric grid, how much range other people need, etc., are not on topic. Please take general comments about overall take up of electric vehicles to a more appropriate thread. That applies to everyone, but especially to Sam, who has largely posted off-topic here. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1279 "2023-12-23T14:17:01Z")
The dealer is offering us $5k off, so we’ll probably still do it. God knows when it will get here. Not impressed with GM’s logistics. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1280 "2023-12-24T16:05:35Z")
As I said at some earlier point, I tentatively plan on my next car being an EV, but here’s some bleak and rather surprising news that prospective buyers might want to keep an eye on: according to a large sample (330,000) of EVs surveyed by Consumer Reports, EVs have turned out to be much less reliable than one might expect. In fact, on average, owners reported problems at about twice the rate of comparable ICE vehicles. This is surprising because in principle there’s less intricate mechanical stuff to go wrong, but it seems that much of the advanced electronics, including the battery and charging systems, are still so new that manufacturers are still learning to build them reliably. CR does mention that among the model years surveyed (2020 to 2023) the 2023 models seem to be doing best, but it’s unclear whether this is because the technology has improved or because problems haven’t yet developed. > **[On average, electric vehicles are less reliable than other cars and trucks,...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/us-electric-vehicles-reliability-1.7043798)** > > Electric vehicles have proved far less reliable, on average, than gasoline-powered cars, trucks and SUVs, according to the latest survey by Consumer Reports. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1281 "2023-12-25T15:58:11Z")
It’s a really bad time to buy any non-Tesla EV. In a year, owning an EV that doesn’t use the Tesla/NACS charging system will be like owning a Beta video tape player when everyone else has VHS. Worse; Beta owners could at least claim they had the better product as it rushed to obsolescence. Not so the clunky and unreliable CCS charging systems. I bet the non-NACS EVs will depreciate faster as well. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1282 "2023-12-25T16:10:04Z")
Why can’t you just use an adaptor? ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1283 "2023-12-25T16:17:48Z")
AFAIK, an adapter will enable you to use an NACS charger so you will be able to charge, but it won’t be the seamless process that Teslas and future EVs will have, where you just plug in and walk away/take a nap. Here’s a video on the subject: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/m6pVzL761_U/maxresdefault.jpg "EV expert says "you’d have to be CRAZY to buy a Non-Tesla EV in 2024") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pVzL761_U) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1284 "2023-12-25T16:46:05Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > AFAIK, an adapter will enable you to use an NACS charger so you will be able to charge, but it won’t be the seamless process that Teslas and future EVs will have, where you just plug in and walk away/take a nap. I’ve never owned an EV, so perhaps I don’t know what I’m talking about, but just how does the need to use an adapter make it not a “seamless process?” ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614/1285 "2023-12-25T17:10:45Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > It’s a really bad time to buy any non-Tesla EV. In a year, owning an EV that doesn’t use the Tesla/NACS charging system will be like owning a Beta video tape player when everyone else has VHS. Worse; Beta owners could at least claim they had the better product as it rushed to obsolescence. Not so the clunky and unreliable CCS charging systems. I bet the non-NACS EVs will depreciate faster as well. Depends on how you drive. For my iPace, 99.5% of my charging is done at home (and probably all of it could be). My charging system works perfectly fine for me. I do agree, Tesla has a great Supercharger network. For our rare road trips, we take the Tesla. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-your-electric-vehicle-plans/923614.md?page=64)