3 posts were merged into an existing topic: Thread on viability of Electric Cars
Well, do you see a lot of energy conservation initiatives by the power companies. It’s not like they’re just pushing everyone to use as much power as possible. We get rebates for upgrading appliances to more energy efficient models, for example, and offers to have them do “energy audits” of our home.
I was of course being flippant. 
Many power companies are heavily regulated monopolies who are not free to set prices willy nilly, and so may well be in a position where the marginal revenue on the next megawatts might not be enough to justify the capital expenditure to support the increased capacity. That specifically is generally a short-term issue, as in the long term the infrastructure needs repair/replacing/upgrading anyways. I suspect most of the energy efficiency initiatives are designed to keep increases in demand down to a rate that can be managed cost-effectively.
Sam: here is a diagram of energy use in the U.S.:
There is a problem with the media and most of the general public only talking about solar/wind/electric cars when it is clear that these three solutions are not enough; that you need several dozen additional solutions. So you start talking about efficiency improvements, electric heat pumps for houses, additional insulation for houses, hydrogen for high temperature heating, electrifying the rail system, carbon capture and storage, capturing and reusing waste heat… There is no one solution for global warming, you need to look at large numbers of specific energy use cases and the best zero carbon solutions are going to vary substantially for each.
I think that’s supposed to go on sale next year, I definitely would consider buying one.
As soon as governments tax petroleum, coal and other CO2 generating fuels to properly reflect the true cost of the pollution emitted, I am sure we will see a healthy appetite for green technologies in all the various avenues required to meet the demands to fight global warming.
There will be growing pains, but we don’t take those steps now, we will suffer greater pains later.
There’s going to be a massive fight before that happens. Fossil fuel companies rely on externalities being borne by others; Their business model collapses if they are expected to bear the costs associated with the use of their products.
I just bought a Prius Prime. It is can drive in gasoline mode, hybrid mode, or fully electric. I really like it.
When I was considering buying a new car at the end of last year, I decided it didn’t make sense to go with a traditional internal combustion type.
I don’t plug in often, logistically, it’s tough for me. But I wanted the option. There are a lot more charging ports than I thought there would be, and some of them free. The closest one to my home is free. It takes about 2.5 hours to charge, but I drove all of last weekend completely electric.
No. While there would be a massive fight their business model wouldn’t collapse. A gallon of gasoline produces 20 pounds of carbon dioxide. So a $100/ton carbon dioxide is $1/gallon. The car industry in Europe operates in an environment of several dollars/gallon of additional taxes. [The government recently set a social cost of $51/ton carbon]
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cost-of-carbon-pollution-pegged-at-51-a-ton/
I’m trying to figure out if there’s any daylight between your position and “anthropogenic climate change is a hoax”, but so far I’ve failed.
Pretending that there are no costs does not mean the costs are zero. Pointing out that carbon emissions are expensive does not lead to the conclusion that they should not be paid for.
I believe he’s going for the “if we make the corporations pay for externalities, the economy will collapse” argument. Or something… hard to tell. It might just be tossing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what will stick.
So far, it’s “Electric cars are pointless, as they are only a small part of carbon emisssions, so why bother”, followed by “we can’t tax carbon because it will cost a lot, and I already pay a lot to heat my house.”
The old standby “I don’t like the answers I’m getting, so we should stop asking the question” is another possibility.
Bullseye!
Let me guess your proposed solution: pretend - and make policy as though - it is 0?
Modnote: This thread should stick to posters’ plans for plug-in vehicle (PEV) or plug-in hybrid (PHEV). No more debate about the the grid, the practicality and whatever else is off sure.
The Op requested this and he is correct. The off-topic belongs elsewhere. Start a thread if you like, but no more here.
I might spin this hijack off to its own thread. I’m going to check with the other mods first.
My car (2010 Honda Fit) is ten years old but only has like 40,000 miles so I have no reason to replace it. Still, I was thinking a few months ago that a Toyota RAV4 Prime might be nice. It can run electric-only for 30-40 miles, so most of my week wouldn’t use any gas and it has all of the cool new technology that my 2010 car is missing. And because of federal and state tax incentives, I might get $7500 or more in tax credits, which would offset some of the $40,000 cost (bringing it down to roughly the price of a conventional RAV4). But then I thought more about it. In a week, I spend only two or three hours in my car so it would be a ridiculous amount of money to spend per hour of use. So I’ve mostly talked myself out of buying a new car. (Although I spend eight hours a day on my bed, so by the same theory, I should have a much nicer one.)
Should we take this as purely answering the title question, or can this be an advice thread as well? I.e., existing EV owners answering questions from prospective owners about their experience.
I’ve never bought a car that cost more than fifteen thousand dollars. As soon as they come out with a decent electric car that costs $15k, maybe even $20k if you account for the gas (and maintenance?) savings, I’ll buy one. I don’t foresee that happening any time soon. But I expect it will certainly happen in my lifetime, and I’ll eventually buy one and drive it.
I’m not opposed to electric vehicles, I’m just not usually the guy who buys the very expensive early model of anything. I didn’t get a smartphone until years after they came out, when they were much more affordable and didn’t go obsolete as fast (same story with home computers, but that was more my parents’ decision than my own). I suspect it will be the same way with electric cars for me.
I’m good with that, I think the Op would be also.
It was the infrastructure debate hijack we’re trying to stop.
If it matters, yes, I’m fine with that.