While walking around the parking lot of a gas station/convenience store (I needed to stretch my legs) I noticed something. If there are (usually Tesla) chargers at the convenience store, they’re either at the far corner of the parking lot or around back while the gas pumps are right out front. Also, almost every gas pump has a roof so you don’t get wet in all but blowing rain whereas I’ve never seen a cover over an EV charger. While it’s true you don’t need to stand there while charging, you do need to get out to dis/connect the charge cable; why doesn’t Tesla do roofs over their chargers?
More expense. Might be permitting reasons too; having something that counts as a structure could require more expensive permits.
But it’s as you say: it doesn’t take long to plug in. You can open the charge port from the car, and all the payment stuff is handled automatically. It genuinely doesn’t take more than about 10 seconds.
Some Superchargers are covered though–specifically, the ones with solar roofs, like this one. Would definitely be nice to have more of these.
I’ve used the “driving a phone” analogy before, and for the Tesla it goes beyond using a screen as the interface and lots of technology. There are updates. Lots of updates (two so far this month!). Updates mean changes. Most people don’t expect to get in their car and have the AC controls be in a different place then where they were the night before.
In general the changes to the user interface are improvements, but simply the fact that it changes will be enough for some people to completely lose it. Sometimes menu items move to more logical places, or menus get completely rearranged. Usually it is simple things that are improvements, like now you can tap on the number near the battery to switch it between percentage charge and miles remaining.
There is a Tesla hacking community, but I’m not sure if anybody is uploading their own software with modifications. Most of what I’ve seen is people connecting to the OBDII/ethernet interface to pull out additional information, like power delivery and things.
I’ve seen pictures of covered charging spots, but no, not common at all. On my one EV trip (I’m an expert now!), we did stop at a charger in a huge down pour. I opened the charging port from inside the car, jumped out, plugged in the charging cord, and got back in the car. I got wet, but I was probably out of the car for only 10-15 seconds. Once back in the car I made sure that charging started, and then we discussed whether we’d run to the restaurant, or wait out the rain. If we hadn’t wanted lunch, we could have just sat in the car with the AC or heat on and watched Netflix, Disney+, or played video games.
In some ways, this is a good thing. When EV chargers are right up front in convenient parking spots, the spots tend to get filled with non-EVs. Personally I’d much rather have a EV charger spot open when I need one, even if it means I have to walk a little bit extra.
Pretty much everything I have these days is either micro-USB or USB-C, except for one (older) laptop that uses a proprietary connection. One standard doesn’t mean one standard for ever and ever, but I do imagine we’ll have USB-C-compatible connectors for quite a while.
The typical charging station locations are a problem that will need to be resolved at some point. Too many of them are at the back of parking lots, behind buildings, and just generally out of the way. My wife complains that she doesn’t feel comfortable parking at these dark locations far away from most people, and I don’t blame her at all. I don’t particularly enjoy it either.
I have seen charging stations in out of the way places but also some in very visible places. The cell phone lot at Seatac has one, for example. And the Tacoma mall has one right in the main parking lot.
Level 2 charges are everywhere, but we never have a need for one with the range of our current EV’s. Superchargers on trips, otherwise we charge exclusively at home (unless we just want to plug in for access to a better parking spot)
I’m surprised Tesla would open up their charging network to other cars, as almost all EV reviews I read mention Tesla’s charging network as being a significant competitive advantage for them - sometimes the only significant advantqge.
I guess they might be looking at it this way: The other charging networks are growing fast, and may eventually supplant even ours in terms of access/locations. So if we open ours up it will slow down the others and perhaps allow us to profit from charging other electric vehcles that we otherwise would lose.
It will be interesting to see how Tesla fares against the combined fleet of other EVs as other manufacturers get more and more comfortable with building electric cars, and the advantage ofthe Tesla charging network fades.
I was put off Teslas for some time after examing one at an auto show here a few years ago. The initial build quality was terrible. There were visible paint lines, including one right theough the middle of the door handle. The panel gaps were large and uneven - one quarter panel had a gap that was probably 5mm wider at the bottom than the top. It did not give me the warm and fuzzies, especially considering the price of the car at the time.
Another issue is with Tesla’s practice of not changing their car’s looks and features from year to year, or making them software upgradeable. It’s nice for the consumer and for resale value, but I would think that once enough of them have sold they will start getting aerious competition from their own used car fleet. Other manufacturers have learned to constantly update new cars and market the hell out of them to diminish the value of previous versions.
This is going to get worse as the inherent simplicity and reliability of electric cars allows them to stay on the road much longer.
In light aircraft, the age of the plane makes little difference to the price after a few years. Instead, how much time is left on a new or rebuilt engine drives a lot,of the price, A 1965 Cessna with a freshly rebuilt engine can be worth more than a 1975 Cessna that needs an overhaul in a few hundred hours. Likewise, I could see used EV prices being driven more by how old the battery is than how old the car is. A 10 year-old car with an original battery might not be worth as much as a 15 year old model with a fresh battery imstalled, since at some point the battery will represent most of the value of the car.
I install EV charging stations for a living (primarily ChargePoint, but also EV Box, Blink, Enel and others). The reason that so many are not in ideal locations is often the cost of installation. You’ve got to bring in the power from somewhere. In my case, we usually bring in power from a pole or an existing transformer because that’s what the utility wants, and they heavily subsidize the installation. In some cases, we’ll get power from the customer’s own electrical panel if there is capacity.
To get the power from hits source to the charging station, it almost always calls for an excavator to do some trenching (often tearing up and replacing asphalt in the process). Then my electricians need to run conduit from the power source to the stations, then pull and connect the wiring. Copper is very expensive these days. It’s not unusual for our EV Charger projects to cost upwards of $60,000 to install one charger. Although many station locations are not optimal, it’s usually the most cost-effective solution when it comes to installing them.
One of Tesla’s goals is to fight climate change by electrifying transportation, not simply sell cars and make money. They recognize that the only way to electrify all transportation is to have the other manufacturers on board. One big way to do that is to by driving consumer demand for electric cars, and a built out charging infrastructure is necessary for that. Also, it costs money (for most cars) to use superchargers, so Tesla isn’t giving this away. They’ll at a minimum break even.
The features do change, but looks are slower. My 3 is a 2018, so just over three years since delivery. New ones have a different center console with built-in wireless charging, a USB port in the locking glovebox to hold the dashcam storage device, a heat pump instead of inductive cabin heating, an updated full self driving computer, an external pedestrian warning speaker, slightly more battery capacity, and other things I’m not remembering. Also, the back seat has gone through a number of revisions. The updated interior, larger battery, and heat pump are all major changes.
The thing with Tesla is that the changes come out when they’re ready, and are not tied to a model year designation.
Right now, Tesla sells every car they can build. Demand is not the limiting factor. Sending software updates to older cars keeps their value high, which makes new cars more desirable, not less. The depreciation on Teslas makes them a very safe purchase. The trade-in value on my car today is the same I paid for it after taking into account the tax incentives.
You know Sam, I’ve wondered the same thing. My hypotheses were 1) they think they are ahead enough in other areas - motor efficiency, batteries, IVI, etc - that they don’t agree that the charger network is a key part of their value; 2) yours - that they see the charger network gap closing, and would like to get ahead of that; and 3) that they think selling access to their charger network will bring in enough revenue to be worthwhile. Or some combination therein (it’ll cost them a bit in sales (number 1) but it’ll be more than made up for by selling access.)
Please…
Virtually every single action Tesla has taken has been in line with their stated vision of fighting climate change. At some point, one has to admit that maybe they are serious about this.
Regardless, they see ICE vehicles as the enemy, not competitive EVs. Someone purchasing a non-Tesla EV is probably not a lost Tesla sale. It’s a lost ICE sale. EV buyers don’t really go back to ICE cars due to their superiority. Maybe their next car will be a Tesla when they need to buy again.
It’s also a branding win. The Tesla logo is all over the Supercharger stations. More cars charging means more money to build out new stations. Tesla doesn’t advertise in traditional ways (TV, etc.) but they certainly depend on good marketing.
@echoreply’s statement is right if you substitute “Musk” for “Tesla”. Tesla’s job is to sell EVs and large batteries and make money doing so. Musk’s ambition is the whole Mars thing, but he realizes that getting to Mars and building a colony there will require a viable Earth. Even if a Mars colony is built, it will be dependent on Earth for a long, long time, essentially forever. So he fights climate change the best he can, since that will make for a viable Earth.
Obviously (I hope) I meant resistive. The phone chargers are inductive AKA wireless chargers.
Musk’s public persona is too borderline insane to really ascribe too much intent to, but Tesla’s actions - as an organization - are much more consistent with a company trying to build and maintain an advantage in the automobile industry (and to a lesser extent, the home power business) than anything else. Which is exactly what you’d expect from a publicly-traded, for-profit business.
You seem to think those are mutually exclusive statements, but they aren’t. You can’t fight climate change without a viable business. The fact that Tesla has to close their business case doesn’t mean they are going to violate their founding principles.
I’m aware it’s possible to do both, the same way it’s possible for Amazon to be “Earth’s most customer-centric company” and be hugely profitable, but I’m also aware of which would take precedence if push came to shove. Tesla is simply not going to open its supercharger network if the business case isn’t there.
Speaking as a consumer, I really don’t see why this would be an “issue” with Tesla.
As a consumer, why the hell would I want a car whose company changes the looks and features from year to year, not for the purpose of making the car better, but in order to diminish the value of previous versions and/or so they won’t get competition from their own used car fleet.
So you think it’s an “issue” that Tesla is not deliberately making my car less valuable. I think that’s rather a point in their favor.
sure, as I said it’s good for the consumer, at least for now.
An example of how this can be s problem comes from general aviation. Cessna used to sell thousands of light planes per year. But as the years went on and the design remained static, they had to compete against a growing fleet of used planes that were functionally and aesthetically identical, but cost much less.
As that competition ate into their sales, the unit price of new planes went up, making the problem worse. Today, Cessna only makes a few hundred planes per year, and a simple Cessna 172 is approaching half a million dollars while an equally good used model can be had for 10-20% of that price.
The converse to this argument is General Motors who basically invented the “Last year’s car is passe…” And if anything, modelling your business on GM at this point is, and I say this having never attended Harvard Business School, unwise.